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Chris Tillman

Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #31 by Matt P » June 22nd, 2012, 7:43 pm

5.1ip 5h 0er 0bb 8k 95pitches

5 groundouts to 2 flyouts

Would like to see him at least go 6 innings but still another good start.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #32 by Tucker Blair » June 23rd, 2012, 12:59 am

Matt P wrote:5.1ip 5h 0er 0bb 8k 95pitches

5 groundouts to 2 flyouts

Would like to see him at least go 6 innings but still another good start.


all the peripherals are there.
I should have watched him pitch tonight but couldn't pass up the Orioles game. Got to see Hammel pitch a gem so not complaining much!
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #33 by ofahn » June 23rd, 2012, 7:56 am

I don't want to marginalize a solid pitching performance BUT 95 pitches to get 16 outs against AAA hitters does not translate into success as a ML starter. The fact that he didn't walk anyone seems to indicate that he went deep into counts on batter after batter. Contrast that against Hammel's last two starts where he averaged less than 13 pitches per inning by being aggressive in the zone REGARDLESS of the count.

I'm sorry, but after over six professional seasons of the SOS IMO Chris Tillman profiles as a late inning power reliever; and the Orioles should either accept that and convert him NOW or trade him NOW while other teams still think they can make a starter out of him.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #34 by Rising O's » June 23rd, 2012, 2:51 pm

CT should have been moved to the pen under the scuffling master David Trembley. They might have been able to save him that way by forcing the kid to be aggressive.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #35 by Tucker Blair » June 23rd, 2012, 3:03 pm

He's only 24 in reality. If he was never rushed to the majors, I doubt we'd be having the conversation of him being moved to pen. I think they should let him work out of the rotation for the foreseeable future. Once you move him to the pen it's much tougher bringing him back to the rotation if needed.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #36 by ofahn » June 23rd, 2012, 3:56 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:He's only 24 in reality. If he was never rushed to the majors, I doubt we'd be having the conversation of him being moved to pen. I think they should let him work out of the rotation for the foreseeable future. Once you move him to the pen it's much tougher bringing him back to the rotation if needed.


Tucker,

I really respect your baseball mind but I disagree with you about this. Even if Tillman had never been inside a ML stadium and had the same minor league stats I would be expecting him to fail as a ML starter and wonder how long it would take the team to make the conversion to reliever.

IF the team had required him to get in shape and become pitch efficient four years ago by holding him at Frederick until he did so this discussion might be academic, but that's not what happened. Let's face it, Seattle, which has a good track record of developing pitchers, was willing to let him go. Could the fact that he had conditioning problems and poor pitch efficiency been a substantial part of that decision?

Occasionally, pitchers finally "get it" at some point as Jason Hammel was honest enough to admit; but that's the exception, not the rule. I just don't want to see this talented kid be a square peg forced into a round hole as Hayden Penn and so many other young pitchers have in our organization because the team was so desperate for starters. In some ways Daniel Bard of the Sux is an example in reverse. They decided that he was a reliever and brought him to the big leagues at an early age because his talent allowed him to do that. Despite being very successful in that role they then decided to make a starter out of him. He has failed because he couldn't figure out how to get through a ML lineup more than once and that failure got in his head.

We have two other prominent pitching prospects that have problems similar to Tillman's. BOBBY Bundy and Parker Bridwell. Of course, it's WAY too early to write them off as SP but they will both need to get past a major obstacle in their career path to be considered legitimate ML starting pitcher prospects instead of power relievers.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #37 by Tucker Blair » June 23rd, 2012, 4:22 pm

I understand where you are coming from. I do think Tillman would be a good RP.

I guess I just have a different approach with him. I still think you keep a guy in rotation until they prove there is no shot at starting or the time comes where the value is needed elswhere. Tillman has shown glimpses and has improved recently. Whether he sticks, who knows. Also the Orioles need Tillman in the rotation more than the bullpen. At this stage of his career, it's about what can you do for the club the best. With the lack of bullpen need, he is way more valuable as a SP.

But I do understand what you are saying. These situations are very very touchy subjects. It's a reason I'm glad to not be the guy making that decision!
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #38 by ofahn » June 23rd, 2012, 4:46 pm

One of the few times we made the right decision with a pitcher about Tillman's age was David Hernandez. Their minor league progression tracks and stats look about the same but it was clear that he wasn't going to be a successful ML SP at that point in his career, and maybe never. We was; however, a very successful reliever and I wish we still had him.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #39 by Tucker Blair » June 23rd, 2012, 6:10 pm

ofahn wrote:One of the few times we made the right decision with a pitcher about Tillman's age was David Hernandez. Their minor league progression tracks and stats look about the same but it was clear that he wasn't going to be a successful ML SP at that point in his career, and maybe never. We was; however, a very successful reliever and I wish we still had him.

Agree with Hernandez being the right decision.
I do think that Hernandez and Tillman are different situations though.
Hernandez was clearly a BP arm in my eyes, since he couldn't get past the 5-6 innings at all.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #40 by Matt P » June 23rd, 2012, 9:09 pm

Yeah, let's give up on a 24 year old who is Rick Peterson's favorite pitcher in the organization because he didn't do good in previous stints in the majors ... oh man ofahn you always bring the jokes. Of course he would be a good relief pitcher but why would one ever even consider turning him into a reliever at this point unless one was trolling?

Roch said today that Tillman is drawing significant interest from other teams and his fast ball command is much better ... sure sounds like someone they should stick in the pen.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #41 by ofahn » June 24th, 2012, 2:13 pm

Matt P wrote:Yeah, let's give up on a 24 year old who is Rick Peterson's favorite pitcher in the organization because he didn't do good in previous stints in the majors ... oh man ofahn you always bring the jokes. Of course he would be a good relief pitcher but why would one ever even consider turning him into a reliever at this point unless one was trolling?

Roch said today that Tillman is drawing significant interest from other teams and his fast ball command is much better ... sure sounds like someone they should stick in the pen.


Here is a link to the Orioles Hangout. Perhaps they would would benefit from a person like yourself.

http://www.orioleshangout.com/
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #42 by Matt P » June 24th, 2012, 4:50 pm

Is that the best you could come up with?

At least when you said that a 3.71 FIP, 3.76xFIP, and 3.9WAR from a starting pitcher were horrible and that you would rather have Michael Jackson than Edwin Jackson everyone could at least laugh at you. Now, you're just embarrasing yourself.
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Re: Chris Tillman

PostPost #43 by ofahn » June 24th, 2012, 9:03 pm

Matt P wrote:Is that the best you could come up with?

At least when you said that a 3.71 FIP, 3.76xFIP, and 3.9WAR from a starting pitcher were horrible and that you would rather have Michael Jackson than Edwin Jackson everyone could at least laugh at you. Now, you're just embarrasing yourself.


Here is a link to the Orioles Hangout. Perhaps they would would benefit from a person like yourself.

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