Welcome to the Orioles Nation Forums! Like most online communities, you must register to post on our message board. However, posting is free--it always will be--and registration is a simple process. Become part of the growing Orioles Nation community and register now!

I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #16 by osforlife » May 17th, 2012, 2:11 pm

CSPitt17130 wrote:
osforlife wrote:Well, I think I'll go with MLB baseball here on that if he isn't making routine plays, he'll be charged with errors. According to MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL, with an exception of Monday night, he'd been at least making most of the routine plays.


I just explained how he could not make a routine play but still not be charged an error. I don't think MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL would disagree with that. MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL also uses stats like Wins and Saves but those don't necessarily tell how well a pitcher is pitching on many occasions. If you want to base your opinion of his defensive ability on fielding percentage, I think you're leaving out a lot of the whole picture. Remember, catching routine throws from infielders, something most high school baseball handle rather easily, count towards his fielding percentage, so it may be skewed.

Can I at least compare his fielding percentage with the league? The league's fielding percentage is .994 and his is .990. Not compared to other positions, compared to every other 1st basemen.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1622
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #17 by CSPitt17130 » May 17th, 2012, 5:03 pm

osforlife wrote:Can I at least compare his fielding percentage with the league? The league's fielding percentage is .994 and his is .990. Not compared to other positions, compared to every other 1st basemen.


Of the 291 plays involved in Chris Davis's fielding percentage, 268 are put-outs, most of which are just catching the ball from infielders. Only 20 are assists, the more difficult plays. Fielding percentage is not a good indication of his defensive ability. Either find scouting reports or look at something else.
CSPitt17130
DSL Orioles
 
Posts: 181
Joined: December 2011
Reputation Score: 10

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #18 by osforlife » May 17th, 2012, 9:46 pm

CSPitt17130 wrote:
osforlife wrote:Can I at least compare his fielding percentage with the league? The league's fielding percentage is .994 and his is .990. Not compared to other positions, compared to every other 1st basemen.


Of the 291 plays involved in Chris Davis's fielding percentage, 268 are put-outs, most of which are just catching the ball from infielders. Only 20 are assists, the more difficult plays. Fielding percentage is not a good indication of his defensive ability. Either find scouting reports or look at something else.

Catching an easy throw is what a first basemen does. When comparing to the league fielding%, all those "routine plays that didnt get made that didn't get called an error" apply to all other first basemen too. And he's right with the pack.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1622
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #19 by CSPitt17130 » May 18th, 2012, 10:30 am

osforlife wrote:Catching an easy throw is what a first basemen does. When comparing to the league fielding%, all those "routine plays that didnt get made that didn't get called an error" apply to all other first basemen too. And he's right with the pack.


Literally any player you put at first would catch the routine throws, so why even factor that into an opinion on his defense? Every first basemen makes every one of those plays. It's how he performs on every other play that should determine how good he is defensively. Davis is not good at the rest of those plays.
CSPitt17130
DSL Orioles
 
Posts: 181
Joined: December 2011
Reputation Score: 10

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #20 by osforlife » May 18th, 2012, 2:30 pm

CSPitt17130 wrote:
osforlife wrote:Catching an easy throw is what a first basemen does. When comparing to the league fielding%, all those "routine plays that didnt get made that didn't get called an error" apply to all other first basemen too. And he's right with the pack.


Literally any player you put at first would catch the routine throws, so why even factor that into an opinion on his defense? Every first basemen makes every one of those plays. It's how he performs on every other play that should determine how good he is defensively. Davis is not good at the rest of those plays.

Okay so chances minus putouts gives you 24 plays. And he has made 21 of them. Which gives you a not so good .875. But you have to consider that he has picked many of those putouts that don't go go as anything but anothe putout.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1622
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #21 by DougDE » May 19th, 2012, 6:02 pm

I remember him dropping one of those routine putouts a couple weeks ago. Went in his glove, and came right out. I think it was on a weak grounder that the pitcher fielded
DougDE
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 376
Joined: September 2010
Reputation Score: 5

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #22 by CSPitt17130 » May 20th, 2012, 10:28 am

osforlife wrote:Okay so chances minus putouts gives you 24 plays. And he has made 21 of them. Which gives you a not so good .875. But you have to consider that he has picked many of those putouts that don't go go as anything but anothe putout.


You've spent more time arguing that fielding percentage is a suitable way to form an opinion on someone's defense than it would have taken to find a scouting report or look at more involved defensive metrics like those available on fangraphs.
CSPitt17130
DSL Orioles
 
Posts: 181
Joined: December 2011
Reputation Score: 10

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #23 by Matt P » May 20th, 2012, 4:21 pm

I didn't see the first 5 innings today but I listened to it on the radio. The radio announcers made it seem like he should have caught Strasburg's single and that if he would have stretched out on the attempted double play they would have gotten the out (both plays in the bottom of the 3rd). I bring this up because both instances not only cost the Orioles an out but also cost the Orioles a run. Of course, the radio announcers could be wrong and both were tough plays so I ask anyone that was watching the game their opinions on it.
Matt P
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1717
Joined: October 2011
Location: Pennsylvania
Reputation Score: 37

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #24 by ofahn » May 20th, 2012, 5:05 pm

Chris Davis is Luke Scott playing 1B. They're both LH, they're both streak hitters, and they both are average defensive players. Davis is the best we have right now but 1B should be considered a major need and the best 1B in our system is probably Nick Delmonico, who is at least two full years from being ML ready.

A trade is probably the solution but we can't spare the prospects.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4399
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #25 by CSPitt17130 » May 20th, 2012, 9:12 pm

Matt P wrote:I didn't see the first 5 innings today but I listened to it on the radio. The radio announcers made it seem like he should have caught Strasburg's single and that if he would have stretched out on the attempted double play they would have gotten the out (both plays in the bottom of the 3rd). I bring this up because both instances not only cost the Orioles an out but also cost the Orioles a run. Of course, the radio announcers could be wrong and both were tough plays so I ask anyone that was watching the game their opinions on it.


Two more examples of plays he didn't make that weren't recorded as errors and therefore did not count against his fielding percentage.
CSPitt17130
DSL Orioles
 
Posts: 181
Joined: December 2011
Reputation Score: 10

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #26 by birdwatcher55 » May 22nd, 2012, 6:03 am

Davis is the least of our problems. We need better starting pitching if we're going to be a factor 8-)
birdwatcher55
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1624
Joined: November 2011
Reputation Score: 11

Re: I hate to be the negative Nellie around here, but....

PostPost #27 by CSPitt17130 » May 28th, 2012, 7:07 pm

osforlife wrote:Catching an easy throw is what a first basemen does.


And to begin the third today, he can't even do that.
CSPitt17130
DSL Orioles
 
Posts: 181
Joined: December 2011
Reputation Score: 10


Previous

Return to Baltimore Orioles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron