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First or Third?

First or Third?

PostPost #1 by 2131andBeyond » September 29th, 2010, 2:01 pm

Do you think first base is what the O's need to primarily address in the off-season, or is it actually 3rd base?

We have Wiggy able to play 1st, and truthfully, Brandon Snyder has looked great defensively, and even better at the plate than Josh Bell. Bell looks uncomfortable at the plate, incapable of being good really.

What do people think? With some big bats available to chase for first base, would it actually be more worth our while to push for an Adrian Beltre type? How about even bringing a vet back like Mora?
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #2 by Don » September 29th, 2010, 2:39 pm

You hate to sound to Andy McPhail like, but you have to see how the off-season shakes out.

If Adrian Beltre were not given arbitration, could you throw 3 or 4 years and the 30-40 million it would take?

Would teams not want to offer guys arbitration because of the increase in dollars? Guys such as Mike Napoli, Dan Uggla, Casey Kotchmen, Conor Jackson span the likes that could be non-tendered and/or traded before the arbitration process.

Other guys such as J.J Hardy could be non-tendered...
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #3 by allstar1579 » September 30th, 2010, 9:24 am

2131andBeyond wrote:Do you think first base is what the O's need to primarily address in the off-season, or is it actually 3rd base?

We have Wiggy able to play 1st, and truthfully, Brandon Snyder has looked great defensively, and even better at the plate than Josh Bell. Bell looks uncomfortable at the plate, incapable of being good really.

What do people think? With some big bats available to chase for first base, would it actually be more worth our while to push for an Adrian Beltre type? How about even bringing a vet back like Mora?


Really? Over-dramatic much?
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #4 by 2131andBeyond » September 30th, 2010, 11:21 pm

allstar1579 wrote:
2131andBeyond wrote:Do you think first base is what the O's need to primarily address in the off-season, or is it actually 3rd base?

We have Wiggy able to play 1st, and truthfully, Brandon Snyder has looked great defensively, and even better at the plate than Josh Bell. Bell looks uncomfortable at the plate, incapable of being good really.

What do people think? With some big bats available to chase for first base, would it actually be more worth our while to push for an Adrian Beltre type? How about even bringing a vet back like Mora?


Really? Over-dramatic much?


I don't believe so. I mean, really, watch him. He doesn't look like a fit for the spot. Not one bit. That's just my opinion.
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #5 by allstar1579 » October 2nd, 2010, 1:38 pm

2131andBeyond wrote:
allstar1579 wrote:
2131andBeyond wrote:Do you think first base is what the O's need to primarily address in the off-season, or is it actually 3rd base?

We have Wiggy able to play 1st, and truthfully, Brandon Snyder has looked great defensively, and even better at the plate than Josh Bell. Bell looks uncomfortable at the plate, incapable of being good really.

What do people think? With some big bats available to chase for first base, would it actually be more worth our while to push for an Adrian Beltre type? How about even bringing a vet back like Mora?


Really? Over-dramatic much?


I don't believe so. I mean, really, watch him. He doesn't look like a fit for the spot. Not one bit. That's just my opinion.


Just semantics really, but to see a prospect that EVERYONE knows (in professional circles) was rushed before he was ready in a limited stretch not do well and decide he'll never be any good is the kind of thinking that traded Jason Werth for Beau Hale. Just sayin'.

Bell is two different players. From the LH side, he's a monster. It's taken a lot of work to get him comfortable and controlled hitting, so there are a lot of things that can happen to undo that, but this is why we got him in a deal for George. He's not a top tier prospect that people were trying to make him out to be, but he's not bad. His defense isn't terrible but any rookie is going to have hiccups while trying to adjust to the ML, especially when it's too soon.

Just pointing out that you can't dismiss someone after such a small sample size. See Pie, Felix, and Guthrie, Jeremy.
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #6 by DougDE » October 2nd, 2010, 2:05 pm

Completely agree that you cant dismiss a player after such a small sample size but if you're saying he's a monster from the left side in the ML's, I would have to disagree. He's been horrible from both sides in my opinion. A strikeout machine. I will say, aside from some low throws, his defense has been better then I expected
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #7 by allstar1579 » October 2nd, 2010, 7:37 pm

DougDE wrote:Completely agree that you cant dismiss a player after such a small sample size but if you're saying he's a monster from the left side in the ML's, I would have to disagree. He's been horrible from both sides in my opinion. A strikeout machine. I will say, aside from some low throws, his defense has been better then I expected


No, I've said a couple times in the minors thread, I've seen him live quite a bit in the minors, I know what he can and can't do very well. Like I said, he's been bad in the ML, but that's because he was NO where near ready yet, he still couldn't hit lefties in the minors, why would he suddenly be able to hit them in the ML. It's not just the hitting lefties, but he gets in his own head and can't hit anything sometimes, and I think it's because he's had to work so hard at his swing.

Watch two AB real close, one left and one right. From the LH side it's more focused and he'll rock back and forth in his legs just a bit, before stopping completely to load his bat for the swing. From the RH side he keeps rocking through the AB and never gets the time to lock and load the bat, so his timing is guesswork at best, he might get lucky and get good wood on something, but for the most part he won't even make contact. ML pitchers will be able to keep him off balance enough just pitching, he doesn't need his own swing throwing him off even more. It's almost like Sheffield did with the bat, except Bell does it with his whole body.
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #8 by DougDE » October 2nd, 2010, 10:12 pm

I got ya. Im assuming his natural side is left handed, so if he gets in long funks where he cant even hit anything left handed and has to constantly work on his swing, why would he also do something as difficult as switch hit? Thats basically rhetorical. I just really think the kid needs to just be a left hander. It almost feels bullheadish to me that he continues to do it, and I think those homers he hit right handed just encouraged him. Would like to see the club step up and tell him it happening right handed so give it up
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #9 by CamdenRevival » October 2nd, 2010, 10:26 pm

Regarding Beltre, the thing is that his two best seasons of his career came in contract years. He got a lot of money from the Mariners to be very mediocre offensively (good, but not worth the $$). I like him, but I'd worry that he's the hitting equivalent of AJ Burnett--ultra-talented, but lacking the motivation to step up when the chips aren't on the line. That said, it'd be great to snag someone from the Red Sox and his defense is really good, so even with an offensive drop, he'd be a plus on the hot corner.

That said, I think the Orioles should consider VMart and use him as a backup catcher as well as first base. Whether you leave Tatum off the roster or just feel more comfortable DHing Wieters, he's a hitting machine and would look good in this lineup if we can find a 40 HR bat. Plus, I trust his consistency more than Beltre.
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #10 by allstar1579 » October 2nd, 2010, 10:33 pm

DougDE wrote:I got ya. Im assuming his natural side is left handed, so if he gets in long funks where he cant even hit anything left handed and has to constantly work on his swing, why would he also do something as difficult as switch hit? Thats basically rhetorical. I just really think the kid needs to just be a left hander. It almost feels bullheadish to me that he continues to do it, and I think those homers he hit right handed just encouraged him. Would like to see the club step up and tell him it happening right handed so give it up


Yep, I've been saying (and a couple other scouts I talked to) the same thing, but I don't think it ever gets done. The club will never ask him to do it, either he does what he needs to do to be the best player he can on his own, or they'll find someone who will. The Dodgers completely rebuilt his swing the beginning of last season, which is why you still see the difference in it, because he hits more from the LH side and hasn't had the repetition for it to feel natural from the other side. For whatever reason there aren't that many LHP in the minors. I always said he should just take his risks against LHP from the LH side and see what happens cause it can't be any worse than he's doing now, but I think he's afraid he'll be a platoon player if that happens (which is going to happen anyway if you look at his career numbers from the RH side).

He's really not that great of a prospect in the grand scheme of things, he was just better than what we had at the time, and because we are so starved for position talent it makes him look that much better (it's the principle behind why SS, and C prospects get so overrated). The more he thinks about it and the more it's in his head that he's not hitting lefties the worse he gets against everyone...that should go away with experience, but I would rank him behind Adams if he could at least catch a cold.
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #11 by LukeScottsShotgun » October 5th, 2010, 12:43 pm

I think our bigger need is at first. Teams that succeed typically get good or great production from first base. If we sign an Adam Dunn or a Paul Konerko or a Victor Martinez, or yes even trade for someone like Prince Fielder, that's going to transform our offense. Our offense lacks power bats, and the best way to upgrade it would be at first base.

Third base will be a far easier position for us to fill. I'd go the route of Juan Uribe. Cheap and since he's a dead pull hitter, I could definitely see him hitting 25-30 HRs in a full year, especially playing half of his games at Camden Yards. His numbers suggest he's about on par with Miguel Tejada defensively. He's no Brooks Robinson, but if we want to add power to the lineup, Uribe would be a great (and cheap) way to do it. For what it's worth, he can also play shortstop, but be forewarned that he's no Cesar Izturis defensively.
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #12 by OFFNY » October 9th, 2010, 12:12 pm

I'd like to acquire Adrain Beltre to play 3rd base. Then we could have Luke Scott, Ty Wigginton, and Nolan Reimold alternate at 2 positions: 1B and DH. Reimold could occasionally play left field in addition to 1st base and DH. Most of the time, Ty could play first and Luke Scott could DH, because Ty is a better defensive 1st baseman than Luke.
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #13 by LukeScottsShotgun » October 9th, 2010, 12:31 pm

OFFNY wrote:I'd like to acquire Adrain Beltre to play 3rd base. Then we could have Luke Scott, Ty Wigginton, and Nolan Reimold alternate at 2 positions: 1B and DH. Reimold could occasionally play left field in addition to 1st base and DH. Most of the time, Ty could play first and Luke Scott could DH, because Ty is a better defensive 1st baseman than Luke.


NO ADRIAN BELTRE. Unless it's like a one or two year deal. He is a pretty notorious contract year player. He's an above average player until his contract year hits and then he suddenly does extremely well. Ask the Mariners if Beltre even remotely lived up to his deal. Juan Uribe would be a perfect fit for Camden Yards. Right handed power bat, and he's a dead pull hitter. For those who don't know what a dead pull hitter is, a dead pull hitter is basically a hitter who almost always pulls the ball. They rarely hit the ball opposite field. Jose Bautista is the perfect example of a dead pull hitter. Considering the small dimensions of Camden Yards, and how easy it is to get a homer to left field at Camden Yards, Uribe could easily hit 30+ homers if he plays half of his games at Camden Yards. Plus, he'll probably be cheap as opposed to Beltre.
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Re: First or Third?

PostPost #14 by allstar1579 » October 9th, 2010, 8:45 pm

LukeScottsShotgun wrote:
OFFNY wrote:I'd like to acquire Adrain Beltre to play 3rd base. Then we could have Luke Scott, Ty Wigginton, and Nolan Reimold alternate at 2 positions: 1B and DH. Reimold could occasionally play left field in addition to 1st base and DH. Most of the time, Ty could play first and Luke Scott could DH, because Ty is a better defensive 1st baseman than Luke.


NO ADRIAN BELTRE. Unless it's like a one or two year deal. He is a pretty notorious contract year player. He's an above average player until his contract year hits and then he suddenly does extremely well. Ask the Mariners if Beltre even remotely lived up to his deal. Juan Uribe would be a perfect fit for Camden Yards. Right handed power bat, and he's a dead pull hitter. For those who don't know what a dead pull hitter is, a dead pull hitter is basically a hitter who almost always pulls the ball. They rarely hit the ball opposite field. Jose Bautista is the perfect example of a dead pull hitter. Considering the small dimensions of Camden Yards, and how easy it is to get a homer to left field at Camden Yards, Uribe could easily hit 30+ homers if he plays half of his games at Camden Yards. Plus, he'll probably be cheap as opposed to Beltre.


Beltre only plays in contract years.
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