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Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #1 by ofahn » April 2nd, 2012, 6:38 pm

The Orioles are required to set their 25 man roster by Wednesday afternoon. It appears that the most difficult decisions will be with the seven pitchers in the bullpen. At this point, barring the DL or a trade, it looks like RH Luis Ayala, RH Matt Lindstrom, RH Pedro Strop, RH Jim Johnson, and LH Troy Patton are locks to make it. That leaves two spots. LH Zach Phillis has certainly earned one, but if LH Wada doesn't make the rotation you would have to think he gets it.

That leaves RH Kevin Gregg.

Is there anyone left in Birdland that trusts this guy with the game on the line? I cringe whenever he comes into the game. This spring hasn't been any different than last year. HRs and walks. At least he's consistent. I watched him pitch in a game last week and he seemed to get strike two on each batter and then nibble until he walked the guy or grooved a pitch that got hammered.

Compare that to Pat Neshek. All he has done this spring is pitch to an ERA of 0.00 in nine innings over ten appearances. He's allowed THREE hits and ZERO walks while striking out eight. The choice should be a no-brainer until you consider that Gregg is due 5.8M this year. Thanks Andy MacPhail.

I know it's not my money but I would cut ties with Gregg and keep Neshek in the bullpen. I understand he can be assigned to AAA and can be promoted if they cut Gregg after the season starts but WHY reward Gregg with a roster spot for the same lousy pitching he made his trademark last year. I mean, I understand that we will be lucky to win 85 games this year but why not put the best 25 players on the field for EVERY GAME instead of carrying an expensive failure until he costs us four or five losses?

What do you think, and WHY?
Last edited by ofahn on April 2nd, 2012, 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #2 by CSPitt17130 » April 2nd, 2012, 6:45 pm

I cannot stand watching Gregg pitch. I can't wait until he's no longer on the team. I don't care how that happens. Cutting him and giving the last BP spot to Phillips, Neshek, or O'Day would be ideal.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #3 by osforlife » April 2nd, 2012, 8:08 pm

I can live with Gregg, as long as he never comes anywhere close to the 9th inning.
From what I've read, Wada will either make the rotation or stay back in extended spring training on the 15 day DL.
At the beginning of ST, I had Johnson, Lindstrom, Gregg, Ayala, 2 of Strop/Simon/O'Day, Patton.
Now it seems like Johnson, Lindstrom, Gregg, Ayala, Strop, Patton, 1 of Phillips/O'Day/Neshek. I don't mind which.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #4 by thezeroes » April 2nd, 2012, 8:18 pm

Pat Neshek should get the bullpen spot over Gregg. I would have given it to Simon over Gregg and cut my losses by DFA'ing Gregg. Eveland would have been better than Gregg. I could bash Gregg all night but I think he makes the twenty-five because of the money.

If he makes the squad, I would hope he gets placed in only non-winnable game situations. Like a 12 to 1 blow out in the third and allowed to pitch 3 plus innings so he is unavailable for at least three days. He would stay in this role until he finally gets it that walks, long pitch counts and homers are not going to be tolerated.

Bitter?? YES
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #5 by ofahn » April 2nd, 2012, 8:28 pm

osforlife wrote:Now it seems like Johnson, Lindstrom, Gregg, Ayala, Strop, Patton, 1 of Phillips/O'Day/Neshek.


Do you really think Gregg deserves a roster spot over Phillips or Neshek?
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #6 by osforlife » April 2nd, 2012, 9:34 pm

ofahn wrote:
osforlife wrote:Now it seems like Johnson, Lindstrom, Gregg, Ayala, Strop, Patton, 1 of Phillips/O'Day/Neshek.


Do you really think Gregg deserves a roster spot over Phillips or Neshek?

No I do not. If I could choose, I'd pick Phillips or Neshek or O'Day over Gregg. But they aren't going to make it over Gregg with a 5.8mil salary.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #7 by ofahn » April 2nd, 2012, 9:52 pm

osforlife wrote:No I do not. If I could choose, I'd pick Phillips or Neshek or O'Day over Gregg. But they aren't going to make it over Gregg with a 5.8mil salary.


I reluctantly agree and I hope we're both wrong.

DD could make a HECK of a statement by dumping Gregg to add Phillips or Neshek to the roster. Gregg is the last guy's mistake and DD is not invested in him.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #8 by Ampontan » April 2nd, 2012, 10:31 pm

Emotionalism. Understandable, but emotionalism. They're not going to cut the guy, and I'd rather go with Neshek too.

Not Simon. Simon has never had one good year, start to finish. Yeah, he's got a lot of talent, but spotty production.

Gregg has sometimes been acceptable in his career. Considering how the performance of many relievers can fluctuate from year to year, it's possible that Gregg will be acceptable this year.

Besides, cutting the guy is just bad business. AM managed to get Strop for Gonzalez last year after all of the latter's problems. If Gregg has a reasonably good year, we might get lucky again.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #9 by Matt P » April 3rd, 2012, 12:37 am

One just has to hope that Gregg can put up respectable numbers as a middle reliever and maybe, just maybe, some team will give up a C+ prospect for him + cash at the trade deadline.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #10 by CSPitt17130 » April 3rd, 2012, 8:36 am

Ampontan wrote:Emotionalism. Understandable, but emotionalism.


Are you sure emotionalism is the word you're looking for here?

Ampontan wrote:Besides, cutting the guy is just bad business.


How is cutting Gregg bad business? Don't keep the guy because MacPhail agreed to pay him whatever absurd contract he has now. He's a sunk cost. Take the best 25 guys north to Baltimore.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #11 by JoseB » April 3rd, 2012, 8:36 am

The front office said pitchers would have to compete and earn their spot. If that's true, then clearly Neshek earned a spot. What more could he possibly have done to be on the team? Same for Phillips. They both earned it and should make the team. Get rid of Gregg. Even if it means eating his entire salary.. Johnson, Lindstrom, Strop, Ayala, Neshek, Phillips, Patton/Wada.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #12 by Ampontan » April 3rd, 2012, 10:41 am

However, the front office also admitted, somewhat more quietly, that options will be a factor as well.

Why is cutting Gregg bad business? Because it is throwing away an asset and getting nothing in return. You value him at zero? That's emotionalism. He does have value; it's just that his present value does not correspond to the money he's being paid. It is good business to leverage the asset to get whatever value out of it you can while you own it. To assume that he's worth zero and throw it away is to assume he's going to be even worse than he was last year, his worst year. Since the performance of relievers often fluctuates, it is not unreasonable to think he could have one of his good years this year. He's done it more than once before. In that case, he would be worth considerably more than a C+ prospect a previous poster mentioned.

In any event, the value of a C+ prospect is close to zero. That's career minor league free agent, which you can sign any number of during the off-season.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #13 by ofahn » April 3rd, 2012, 11:00 am

Ampontan wrote:However, the front office also admitted, somewhat more quietly, that options will be a factor as well.

Why is cutting Gregg bad business? Because it is throwing away an asset and getting nothing in return. You value him at zero? That's emotionalism. He does have value; it's just that his present value does not correspond to the money he's being paid. It is good business to leverage the asset to get whatever value out of it you can while you own it. To assume that he's worth zero and throw it away is to assume he's going to be even worse than he was last year, his worst year. Since the performance of relievers often fluctuates, it is not unreasonable to think he could have one of his good years this year. He's done it more than once before. In that case, he would be worth considerably more than a C+ prospect a previous poster mentioned.

In any event, the value of a C+ prospect is close to zero. That's career minor league free agent, which you can sign any number of during the off-season.


Would you agree that value is subjective?

IMO Kevin Gregg will hurt this team much more than he will help it. If he had shown improvement this spring I would have been willing to take a chance on him BUT he hasn't. If anything, he's more unproductive. The roster should be the best 25; not the best 24 and a toxic contract.

Removing Gregg from the 25 man roster (regardless of how) would have the immeasurable value of making a loud statement to this team and the fans that winning is more important than rationalizing past mistakes. The positive effect of that may well be more than any one player could contribute.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #14 by Zach » April 3rd, 2012, 11:07 am

I definitely agree with ofahn on this one. If this franchise wants to invigorate the franchise they need to show them they are serious about this team. Gregg might not have a value of zero, but his value is not as high as other pitchers. No one is suggesting that we should just cut him for the sake of cutting him. The suggestion is that their is a better alternative so it would be better to eat the cost. It is good business to maximize value to get the most production. Good business cuts losses on losing ventures in order to produce more cost effective products.
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Re: Should The Orioles Keep Kevin Gregg or Pat Neshek?

PostPost #15 by birdwatcher55 » April 3rd, 2012, 1:37 pm

I will pay to get rid of Gregg. Here is the first $10 to help the Orioles "eat" his contract... 8-)
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