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Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #46 by A_K » March 29th, 2012, 1:58 pm

Well, we now have the requisite information to judge this move. The only way Eveland becomes the "starting pitching insurance" he was billed as is if every team in baseball decides they have no use for him. The sad part is, that seems to be the most likely outcome.

Martin and Henson (edit: initially wrote Henry) remain longshots to ever reach the majors. But it's clear that Dana Eveland wasn't worth trading for. The only way he remains with the club is if we learn that the demand for his services around the league is a bag, fat nothingburger.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #47 by Tucker Blair » March 29th, 2012, 2:05 pm

I was not a fan of this from the beginning, and now I am scratching my head even more about it.
Overall, it was a dumb decision and move.

The Orioles claimed Zelous Wheeler off waivers to replace his spot
http://orioles-nation.com/blogs/baltimo ... s-wheeler/
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #48 by A_K » March 29th, 2012, 2:11 pm

The best argument anyone could ever conjure in support of this move was one of, "Well, minor league relief pitchers are a long shot, so we might as well," or "Well he was pretty good in 20-some innings in 2011," or "The GM knows more than us, so let's see how this plays out." When you're left clinging to that sort of evasive, shapeless rationale you already know all that needs to be known about the move.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #49 by Tucker Blair » March 29th, 2012, 2:14 pm

A_K wrote:The best argument anyone could ever conjure in support of this move was one of, "Well, minor league relief pitchers are a long shot, so we might as well," or "Well he was pretty good in 20-some innings in 2011," or "The GM knows more than us, so let's see how this plays out." When you're left clinging to that sort of evasive, shapeless rationale you already know all that needs to be known about the move.


Pretty much. I understand that they decided to take a chance at all... but I think we all know that Eveland has been given multiple opportunities and has never shown anything more than small flashes. And they weren't really flashes in reality. He just is not very good.

Ugh, and to make matters worse, I've heard and read that Martin has been a pleasant surprise in LA. They really like him and he seems to be doing well.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #50 by ofahn » March 29th, 2012, 4:05 pm

I don't understand the frustration with acquiring a player like Eveland. In today's game he was a "final clearance" purchase that had enough upside to justify the expense. His contract is only 750K and he cost us two prospects that were marginal, at best. If he stays in the organization he is cheap insurance and if he's claimed we walk away from the contract.

Martin was clearly the better player, but his two professional seasons have had a high WHIP. You never like to give up any left hander but this is a trade I would make again if I needed pitching options like we did this winter. I think it was the football team of SPs we brought into camp that motivated the kids into being ready this year. To me, that made the loss of Martin worth it.

What frustrates me is that what we gave LA for Eveland is about what Cleveland gave Atlanta for Derek Lowe. If MacPhail would have been willing to take on the 5M in salary before he left we could have a MUCH better pitcher.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #51 by Tucker Blair » March 29th, 2012, 4:08 pm

ofahn wrote:I don't understand the frustration with acquiring a player like Eveland. In today's game he was a "final clearance" purchase that had enough upside to justify the expense. His contract is only 750K and he cost us two prospects that were marginal, at best. If he stays in the organization he is cheap insurance and if he's claimed we walk away from the contract.

Martin was clearly the better player, but his two professional seasons have had a high WHIP. You never like to give up any left hander but this is a trade I would make again if I needed pitching options like we did this winter. I think it was the football team of SPs we brought into camp that motivated the kids into being ready this year. To me, that made the loss of Martin worth it.

What frustrates me is that what we gave LA for Eveland is about what Cleveland gave Atlanta for Derek Lowe. If MacPhail would have been willing to take on the 5M in salary before he left we could have a MUCH better pitcher.


I don't think he had any upside to be honest. I also don't think you can look at Martin's WHIP, or stats in general. He has a power arm and could potentially be a solid piece in the future. Of course, the main point is really that Duquette thought it was plausible to give up any form of prospect for someone like Eveland who has proven time after time that he simply is not a major league starter.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #52 by A_K » March 29th, 2012, 4:19 pm

ofahn wrote:I don't understand the frustration with acquiring a player like Eveland. In today's game he was a "final clearance" purchase that had enough upside to justify the expense. His contract is only 750K and he cost us two prospects that were marginal, at best. If he stays in the organization he is cheap insurance and if he's claimed we walk away from the contract.

Martin was clearly the better player, but his two professional seasons have had a high WHIP. You never like to give up any left hander but this is a trade I would make again if I needed pitching options like we did this winter. I think it was the football team of SPs we brought into camp that motivated the kids into being ready this year. To me, that made the loss of Martin worth it.

What frustrates me is that what we gave LA for Eveland is about what Cleveland gave Atlanta for Derek Lowe. If MacPhail would have been willing to take on the 5M in salary before he left we could have a MUCH better pitcher.


This is basically a hodgepodge of the pseudo-defenses I outlined two posts ahead of it. The problem is, you lean on the false premise that Eveland had any upside whatsoever. He doesn't. He's a proven failure that we acquired in exchange for a lottery ticket. The likely value of the lottery ticket is zero, but that doesn't mean you should trade it for last week's lottery ticket that was already found to be a loser.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #53 by CSPitt17130 » March 29th, 2012, 4:33 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:I don't think he had any upside to be honest. I also don't think you can look at Martin's WHIP, or stats in general. He has a power arm and could potentially be a solid piece in the future. Of course, the main point is really that Duquette thought it was plausible to give up any form of prospect for someone like Eveland who has proven time after time that he simply is not a major league starter.


I think it's unfair to say he had no upside. In his last full season as a starter he had an fWAR of 2.6 over 29 starts and it seemed like he pitched well for the Dodgers last year. Looking at this in a more positive light, Eveland would have been a better option than many of the guys who made starts last year like Jakubauskas (6 GS), Jo-Jo Reyes (5 GS), VandenHurk (2 GS), and MITCH ATKINS (3 GS).

Also, it's a good sign that the O's have 5 guys that are better options than Eveland, if you want to think about it that way.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #54 by ofahn » March 29th, 2012, 5:06 pm

A_K wrote:This is basically a hodgepodge of the pseudo-defenses I outlined two posts ahead of it. The problem is, you lean on the false premise that Eveland had any upside whatsoever. He doesn't. He's a proven failure that we acquired in exchange for a lottery ticket. The likely value of the lottery ticket is zero, but that doesn't mean you should trade it for last week's lottery ticket that was already found to be a loser.


Opinions vary.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #55 by Tucker Blair » March 29th, 2012, 5:57 pm

CSPitt17130 wrote:
TuckerBlair89 wrote:I don't think he had any upside to be honest. I also don't think you can look at Martin's WHIP, or stats in general. He has a power arm and could potentially be a solid piece in the future. Of course, the main point is really that Duquette thought it was plausible to give up any form of prospect for someone like Eveland who has proven time after time that he simply is not a major league starter.


I think it's unfair to say he had no upside. In his last full season as a starter he had an fWAR of 2.6 over 29 starts and it seemed like he pitched well for the Dodgers last year. Looking at this in a more positive light, Eveland would have been a better option than many of the guys who made starts last year like Jakubauskas (6 GS), Jo-Jo Reyes (5 GS), VandenHurk (2 GS), and MITCH ATKINS (3 GS).

Also, it's a good sign that the O's have 5 guys that are better options than Eveland, if you want to think about it that way.

I can take that as a valid argument. I guess I should say that his upside is probably minimal at best.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #56 by Ampontan » March 29th, 2012, 9:34 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:I don't think he had any upside to be honest. I also don't think you can look at Martin's WHIP, or stats in general. He has a power arm and could potentially be a solid piece in the future. Of course, the main point is really that Duquette thought it was plausible to give up any form of prospect for someone like Eveland who has proven time after time that he simply is not a major league starter.


Ignoring Martin's stats means ignoring all those walks and ignoring roughly 5.00 ERAs and ignoring that he can't get low A hitters out. He'll have to make some drastic changes to make it.

To suggest that it shouldn't be plausible to trade for Eveland is to ignore his performance last year in AAA in perhaps one of the most extreme anti-pitcher's parks in baseball. It was worth the flyer to see if he had learned something.

As Eveland himself notes, the trade for him was an early move and the landscape changed after they got Wada and Chen.

I have no problem with giving up minor leaguers with such little potential, pitchers or not, for moves of this sort. At the least it helps unclog the system.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #57 by CSPitt17130 » March 30th, 2012, 8:41 am

Ampontan wrote:I have no problem with giving up minor leaguers with such little potential, pitchers or not, for moves of this sort.


I think you've confused little potential with little probability of reaching that potential. From everything I read, Martin always had good stuff from the left side but wasn't able to harness it so far. The potential was there, he was just very far from it and unlikely to reach it.

Ampontan wrote: At the least it helps unclog the system.


Isn't this the opposite of what we want? Lots and lots of prospects? So many that the Orioles don't know what to do with them?
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #58 by Ampontan » March 30th, 2012, 10:13 am

CSPitt17130 wrote:Isn't this the opposite of what we want? Lots and lots of prospects? So many that the Orioles don't know what to do with them?


1. Well, we had a ton of them when we were drafting for seven minor league teams, but that didn't seem to help. I think we want lots and lots of plausible ones.

2. Looking at Wheeler's stats, I'd rather have him than either of the two guys we gave up for Eveland, or for Teagarden, for that matter. He's always been a big OBP guy. As Duquette said, he seems to have picked up the power stroke recently, and he seems to have always hit a fair amount of doubles. (How he fields, of course, only the scouts know.) Saw a mention on a Brewers site that he was blocked at third.

Regardless of whether we agree or not on the Eveland trade, perhaps we can agree on this: It was the only trade Duquette made at the winter meetings, and a lot of the fan base didn't like it. Yet four months later, he and/or Buck decided he wasn't good enough for the ML roster, and they cut him.

Some GMs might have found a way to hang on to him in order to justify themselves. DD didn't, and seems to have done it for a good reason. Good!
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #59 by A_K » April 1st, 2012, 3:49 pm

ofahn wrote:
A_K wrote:This is basically a hodgepodge of the pseudo-defenses I outlined two posts ahead of it. The problem is, you lean on the false premise that Eveland had any upside whatsoever. He doesn't. He's a proven failure that we acquired in exchange for a lottery ticket. The likely value of the lottery ticket is zero, but that doesn't mean you should trade it for last week's lottery ticket that was already found to be a loser.


Opinions vary.


Fair enough.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #60 by Beaker » April 25th, 2012, 12:58 pm

I saw this as just more added depth in the minor leagues for the starting pitching.
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