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Trading Jim Johnson

Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #1 by Tucker Blair » February 21st, 2012, 9:57 pm

Hypothetical question here:

Let's say Pedro Strop proves to be a shutdown 7-8th inning guy this season.
Berken and Simon and whomever else gets a shot in the pen, turn into formidable pitchers that the Orioles can rely on every night.

Do you shop JJ around and potentially trade him? He is not a young one anymore, as he will be 29 by mid-season. He will be a free agent by 2015.
If they could get a legitimate offer in return for him (Such as the Mike Adams deal last year for SD), I would say they absolutely should.

Thoughts?
Would you trade JJ?
Would you trade him regardless of whether Strop and others turn into shutdown guys?
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #2 by Jordan Tuwiner » February 21st, 2012, 11:30 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:Hypothetical question here:

Let's say Pedro Strop proves to be a shutdown 7-8th inning guy this season.
Berken and Simon and whomever else gets a shot in the pen, turn into formidable pitchers that the Orioles can rely on every night.

Do you shop JJ around and potentially trade him? He is not a young one anymore, as he will be 29 by mid-season. He will be a free agent by 2015.
If they could get a legitimate offer in return for him (Such as the Mike Adams deal last year for SD), I would say they absolutely should.

Thoughts?
Would you trade JJ?
Would you trade him regardless of whether Strop and others turn into shutdown guys?

If they can get Mike Adams type return I'd definitely pull the trigger.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #3 by ofahn » February 22nd, 2012, 4:01 am

I've said all along that we shouldn't be looking at players for their value to the current team, we should be looking for a way to convert them into players for the 2014 team and beyond.

In this case we have all of the leverage and should use it to get the right kind of return.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #4 by Ampontan » February 22nd, 2012, 8:18 am

ofahn wrote:I've said all along that we shouldn't be looking at players for their value to the current team, we should be looking for a way to convert them into players for the 2014 team and beyond.


Disagree, though it's not a binary question. The constant churning the roster leads to little but treading water in last place. Everyone thought we got a great deal for Bedard, and we did, but how is that turning out? People calling for more roster churning by trading Jones and unusable parts like Bell and SJohnson.

Teams should balance the present and the future, keeping excellent players whenever possible. It's possible to keep Johnson. He won't be a free agent until 15? That's three more seasons we get to keep him.

If boys didn't grow up trading baseball cards, there wouldn't be all this talk of trading, much less "flipping".
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #5 by Matt P » February 22nd, 2012, 8:56 am

There is absolutely no reason to not trade a reliever on a last place team if they are offered fair value.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #6 by Zach » February 22nd, 2012, 8:59 am

This addresses the bigger issue that no one on this team should be untouchable on this team. If the right deal is presented this organization needs to jump on it. We have so many wholes that we need to fill that we can't afford to pass on these deals.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #7 by ofahn » February 22nd, 2012, 9:34 am

Ampontan wrote:The constant churning the roster leads to little but treading water in last place. Everyone thought we got a great deal for Bedard, and we did, but how is that turning out? People calling for more roster churning by trading Jones and unusable parts like Bell and SJohnson.

Teams should balance the present and the future, keeping excellent players whenever possible. It's possible to keep Johnson. He won't be a free agent until 15? That's three more seasons we get to keep him.


I understand the concern for instability but, if we hold on to players like Johnson instead of converting them into players that will be part of the 2014 teams and beyond, we'll be a stable FOURTH PLACE TEAM for years to come.

We have a farm system that doesn't have half of the resources necessary to restock the ML club. Hard choices are going to have to be made.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #8 by Tucker Blair » February 22nd, 2012, 10:25 am

Matt P wrote:There is absolutely no reason to not trade a reliever on a last place team if they are offered fair value.
Zach wrote:This addresses the bigger issue that no one on this team should be untouchable on this team. If the right deal is presented this organization needs to jump on it. We have so many wholes that we need to fill that we can't afford to pass on these deals.


This is where I stand. While I think JJ is a very good piece, he essentially is the most valuable as a trade piece.
RP is the easiest position to fill in my eyes. Obviously it is not "easy" to replace guys like JJ, but you can find people to fill roles easier than a position like SP, 3rd, C, etc.

The Padres got arguably 2 top 100 prospects back for Adams. If the Orioles could even get one top prospect they should probably do it.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #9 by birdwatcher55 » February 22nd, 2012, 3:56 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:Hypothetical question here:

Let's say Pedro Strop proves to be a shutdown 7-8th inning guy this season.
Berken and Simon and whomever else gets a shot in the pen, turn into formidable pitchers that the Orioles can rely on every night.

Do you shop JJ around and potentially trade him? He is not a young one anymore, as he will be 29 by mid-season. He will be a free agent by 2015.


If they could get a legitimate offer in return for him (Such as the Mike Adams deal last year for SD), I would say they absolutely should.

Thoughts?
Would you trade JJ?
Would you trade him regardless of whether Strop and others turn into shutdown guys?



Unless we are being totally overwhlemed...NO... NO....NO!!!! He is under club control for 3 more years and you never seem to have enough quality arms in the pen.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #10 by Zach » February 22nd, 2012, 5:18 pm

No one is saying trade him for small pieces. This would have to be a worthwhile trade on the part of the Orioles, but it would be foolish for us to hold on to Johnson just for the sake of holding on to him
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #11 by osforlife » February 22nd, 2012, 5:29 pm

If we could get a Kogi return for Johnson, I'd be all for it. But I would wait one more year to trade him after he possibly establishes himself as a closer. That would boost his trade value even more. If he doesn't succeed in the closer's role, we still have a solid 7th/8th inning set-up guy in our bullpen. If he does, we can trade him to a contender as that set-up guy who can also close and we get a good haul in return.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #12 by CSPitt17130 » February 22nd, 2012, 6:03 pm

osforlife wrote:If we could get a Kogi return for Johnson, I'd be all for it.


I agree with this, except that the O's should ask for what the Padres did and not what MacPhail did. I'd rather have two top ten (organizational top ten) prospects than Davis and Hunter.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #13 by Ampontan » February 22nd, 2012, 11:20 pm

osforlife wrote:If we could get a Kogi return for Johnson, I'd be all for it.


I wouldn't. In fact, that would be a bad trade for us. A Johnson trade ought to bring a whole lot more.

Of course it stands to reason that teams have been asking about him. That we haven't traded him might be because of insufficient return, but I suspect it's because Buck really likes him.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #14 by Ampontan » February 22nd, 2012, 11:29 pm

Matt P wrote:There is absolutely no reason to not trade a reliever on a last place team if they are offered fair value.


Last place teams stay last place teams by trading their quality players. Even relievers. They contribute a lot to winning teams.

This team's bullpen over the past several years has more often resembled fireman pouring gasoline on the fire instead of water, even when the FO spent a lot of money on it. JJ in the hand is worth more than two minor league maybes in the bush, or Baez/Bradford/Gonzalez/ad nauseum.

If the starting rotation straightens up and flies right --- which I think is entirely possible --- we won't be having this conversation.
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Re: Trading Jim Johnson

PostPost #15 by Tucker Blair » February 22nd, 2012, 11:49 pm

Ampontan wrote:
Matt P wrote:There is absolutely no reason to not trade a reliever on a last place team if they are offered fair value.


Last place teams stay last place teams by trading their quality players. Even relievers. They contribute a lot to winning teams.

This team's bullpen over the past several years has more often resembled fireman pouring gasoline on the fire instead of water, even when the FO spent a lot of money on it. JJ in the hand is worth more than two minor league maybes in the bush, or Baez/Bradford/Gonzalez/ad nauseum.

If the starting rotation straightens up and flies right --- which I think is entirely possible --- we won't be having this conversation.


While I totally see your argument, I disagree.
the Rotation currently looks to be completely inconsistent and troublesome. Even if 2 of the 5 turn into good starters, the Orioles would still be well below the pack.
I just think the Orioles would be better off trading him for prospects rather than waiting on the SP to turn into something that they haven't even proved yet.

I still am perplexed as to why the Orioles thought trading Jarred Martin and Randy Henry was a good idea. They could have easily been bullpen arms in the next year or two.
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