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2015

2015

PostPost #1 by Zach » February 17th, 2012, 10:00 am

The Orioles are one of 9 teams that don't have any contract obligations going into 2015. This means that we should have a lot of flexibility for the free agent market in the upcoming years. Hopefully this means that the front office will have more leeway to make the moves they feel are necessary. At this point we should have the next class of prospects coming up and will have the flexibility to sign who they feel is necessary. http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JS ... nopaging=1
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Re: 2015

PostPost #2 by ofahn » February 17th, 2012, 10:22 am

Zach wrote:The Orioles are one of 9 teams that don't have any contract obligations going into 2015. This means that we should have a lot of flexibility for the free agent market in the upcoming years. Hopefully this means that the front office will have more leeway to make the moves they feel are necessary. At this point we should have the next class of prospects coming up and will have the flexibility to sign who they feel is necessary. http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JS ... nopaging=1


I read the same story but I came away with a different take. I saw this as the flexibility to RETAIN those players that could become the core group of a winning team. Matt Wieters is the first to come to mind.

Over the years I have come to understand that "free" agents more often HURT a team instead of helping it. You're overpaying for a player that is on the downside of their career and is being compensated for what they have DONE, not what they will DO over the entire period of their new contract. I challenge you to pick ONE contract signed this winter for more than 25M that won't look like a train wreck at some point before it ends.

Winning teams are built on home grown talent and trades. When you find a player that is willing to do whatever is necessary to win then you sign them through their PRODUCTIVE years. If the players demands more than that to stay in town - LET THEM GO. The Cardinals, Rangers, Brewers, and Mets allowed ICONS to leave this year and those teams (perhaps except the Mets) have reputations for quality FO management.

Maybe one of our current young pitchers will show themselves to be a building block. Or perhaps Machado or Dylan Bundy will be so special we'll want to lock them up early in their career. IMO THAT'S what we should be saving our money for. Not some overpaid, soon to be has been.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #3 by CSPitt17130 » February 17th, 2012, 10:27 am

In 2015, I'd like to see Wieters a few years into a long contract and Bundy and Machado in the beginning of the types of contracts Moore and Longoria signed for TB. I can only hope that Britton, Schoop, Arrieta, Matusz, and maybe one or two current prospects that the O's could get in a Jones trade are showing that they are worth team-friendly extensions at that point also.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #4 by Zach » February 17th, 2012, 12:18 pm

I didn't mean to put all the emphasis on the free agent market. I was more trying to emphasize the upcoming flexibility of the front office to make the moves that they see fit. I would love to see the retention of Weiters and whichever young pitchers works out. It is also why I brought up the next class of prospects. Our system has some talent that could come to fruition by 2015 (Avery, Hoes, Bundys, Machado, Shoop) and locking some of these players up would be a good idea. I think what this shows is the hesitancy to give out a long term contract since the disaster of Albert Belle. Even Roberts contract did not reach that level. The question becomes whether we would be willing to giving our key players contracts like that (a la Weiters) or will let them get away.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #5 by ofahn » February 17th, 2012, 4:23 pm

Zach wrote:I didn't mean to put all the emphasis on the free agent market. I was more trying to emphasize the upcoming flexibility of the front office to make the moves that they see fit. I would love to see the retention of Weiters and whichever young pitchers works out. It is also why I brought up the next class of prospects. Our system has some talent that could come to fruition by 2015 (Avery, Hoes, Bundys, Machado, Shoop) and locking some of these players up would be a good idea. I think what this shows is the hesitancy to give out a long term contract since the disaster of Albert Belle. Even Roberts contract did not reach that level. The question becomes whether we would be willing to giving our key players contracts like that (a la Weiters) or will let them get away.


I guess I misunderstood the point you were making. Sorry :cry: .

I just get so frustrated when fans want the quick fix of a "free" agent. In ALMOST every occasion those contracts end up being a train wreck. Imagine if we had signed Carl Crawford and Adam Dunn last season. We would have been living on Ramen Noodles for payroll for the next four years at least.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #6 by Zach » February 17th, 2012, 6:06 pm

No I agree with the hit or miss nature of free agents and the history of the Orioles has proven that as well. We have the flexibility to run this organization the proper way.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #7 by Matt P » February 19th, 2012, 4:55 pm

I don't think they should sign Wieters long term. I can't imagine many other catchers in the league catch as many innings/games as he does, that's going to catch up with him in 5-6 years. I'd rather trade him while his value is high and get a huge haul for him than give him a long term extension and run the risk of him turning in the next Mauer.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #8 by Zach » February 19th, 2012, 5:19 pm

Wieters actually ranked 5th in terms of games played last year at catcher and that was without any real backup. Tatum wasn't an answer as a solution to give him a day off. Wieters is young and has shown more potential than any other orioles prospect in recent history. He is amazing behind the plate and really developing well at the plate. Signing him to an extension makes loads of sense. He is the catcher of the present and the future and will be going to multiple all-star games if he continues like he has been doing. You don't trade away a player of this caliber. "The next Mauer" makes it seem like Mauer's career is over and that he has and will continue to be a bust. Mauer was productive when he played last year and is gearing up to play a full season this year.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #9 by thezeroes » February 19th, 2012, 9:01 pm

To get an extension (buyout of Arbitration Years) for Wieters will only happen in a dream world IMO. As fans, we need to look no further than who his agent is (Scott Boras). Also take a look forward as to who will be in the Free Agent Class of 2016. Matt Wieters will improve unless injured to the top of that class and will be auctioned off by Boras for a premium.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #10 by Zach » February 19th, 2012, 11:20 pm

You make a very valid point with Boras. While I think that the team should sign Wieters that is a very real obstacle in the process. However much fans don't like him because of his propensity to get outrageous deals, he will do what is in the best interest of his clients and for Wieters that may unfortunately be the free agent market. This is where it is important for Duquette to work on Wieters early and create a relationship that could influence Wieters during the negotiation process. The way to beat Boras is through the client because ultimately it is their decision.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #11 by Tucker Blair » February 20th, 2012, 11:05 am

Wieters is a franchise type player, If the Orioles get to 2014 and have not gained any ground on a competitive standpoint, then you look into trading him. As of now I am totally against trading him, and would welcome an extension, but it's still too early for that most likely.

I do think that Wieters will by far be our best player for the next couple years though.
I imagine he would bring back quite the haul if indeed ever traded.
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Re: 2015

PostPost #12 by ofahn » February 20th, 2012, 1:10 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:Wieters is a franchise type player


and may be the first one we have developed since Mike Mussina, although you could make a valid argument for Brian Roberts. The real shame is that THIS season will probably determine how long he's with us. If our young pitchers develop and succeed then the team can become optimistic about 2014 and beyond. Wieters would have a reason to be optimistic about our future and would have a strong reason to want to be part of it.

If they collectively fall on their face then DD should SERIOUSLY consider moving everything of value and starting over again because half of the foundation just proved themselves unworthy and the other half will want to leave as soon as they can. If we have to face that nightmare in October then we should offer him to some NL team for TWO busloads of prospects.
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