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O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #31 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 3:43 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Just curious could you expound a bit more on why you think Hammel "looks to be Guthrie's clone"???


Here's Guthrie's line http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ign=Linker and Hammel's http://www.baseball-reference.com/playe ... ign=Linker. Looking at Hammel's 2010 line you will see how close it was to Guthrie's 2011 line in almost every aspect.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #32 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 3:51 pm

Why Not? wrote:
ofahn wrote:
Let's hope that DD can turn these two into future building blocks. If they have solid first halves they might bring back some legitimate prospects. I sure HOPE that was the idea with this trade.


Neither of these guys (nor Guthrie) are going to bring top-shelf prospects in return. They are useful players, but nobody is going to give up much for good-not-great players approaching free agency.


Guthrie was not an impact pitcher but he had unique and marketable skills. He was a proven innings eater that had shown he would not wilt in the A L East. That HAD to be worth a lot to Boston or Toronto. I can't believe that neither of those teams didn't have more than a passing interest in him. I'm suspicious that PA simply wouldn't allow us to trade within the division or allow us to include money in the trade so we could get a better prospect. The last time we did that we ended up with Tommy Hunter.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #33 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 5:08 pm

Duquette said they didn't get any good prospect offers for Guthrie. I mean, would you give up a B prospect for Guthrie? Great guy, okay pitcher. People keep ripping the O's for not trading him last year ... do they not know that Duquette wasn't the GM last year and that most O's fans knew they should trade him last year? So, they got a guy who had two years in Colorado that were better than Guthrie's best season that they obviously think is going to bounce back this year along with a power back of the bullpen arm. I don't see how it hurts the team for the next two seasons.

Personally, I would have held onto Guthrie and hoped he did good before the trade deadline and maybe a team in the playoff hunt would have a need for a #3 pitcher and give up that B+/B- prospect but I don't hate the trade like it seems a lot of people do. I said when DD got hired I think the days of only making a trade that at the time is viewed as a clear win for the O's are gone and that he is going to likely make trades that are even for both teams. The thing that has me really confused is why do the Rockies want Guthrie?
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #34 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 5:28 pm

Matt P wrote:I mean, would you give up a B prospect for Guthrie? Great guy, okay pitcher.


I think that Boston would have been a real option IF DD would have been allowed to trade within the division and send money. I don't think I will ever be able to prove it but I will continue to believe it.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #35 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 5:32 pm

Didn't they trade Zaun and Bradford a few years back to the Rays?
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #36 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 5:46 pm

Matt P wrote:Didn't they trade Zaun and Bradford a few years back to the Rays?


Both were salary dumps for PTBNL which turned out to be cash. Neither trade was for real players nor did WE send cash.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #37 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 5:52 pm

Rhyne Hughes?
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #38 by A_K » February 6th, 2012, 5:54 pm

Yeah Zaun was definitely for Rhyne Hughes.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #39 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 6:15 pm

A_K wrote:Yeah Zaun was definitely for Rhyne Hughes.


I had remembered him as a PTBNL later that became cash but I do remember Hughes. A AAAA player that was simply part of a salary dump on our part. It would be hard to equate trading a Jeremy Guthrie with either Bradford or Zaun.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #40 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 6:40 pm

Nobody is saying that just pointing out that they have traded within the division in recent years.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #41 by DougDE » February 6th, 2012, 8:06 pm

My initial reaction was that this is the same old "half in, half out" O's move they've been pulling for years. And that is disappointing considering its a new GM. After looking at it some more, I still dont love it, but can accept it. We basically gave up 1 year of Guthrie for 2 years of Hammel, who actually is fairly close to a Guthrie type, and 2 years of a reliever. Nothing to get excited about, and I still would of preferred 2 mid level prospects, but hard to get too worked up either
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #42 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 8:28 pm

Matt P wrote:Nobody is saying that just pointing out that they have traded within the division in recent years.


You're entitled to your opinion but I don't see a salary dump that brings back a AAAA player as being on the same level as trading a starting pitcher to a division rival. Guthrie MIGHT have been a three or four game improvement over what Boston settles for this year. I find it difficult to believe that they didn't consider him or even ask about him. What we don't know is the response they got.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #43 by Why Not? » February 6th, 2012, 9:01 pm

ofahn wrote:
Matt P wrote:Nobody is saying that just pointing out that they have traded within the division in recent years.


You're entitled to your opinion but I don't see a salary dump that brings back a AAAA player as being on the same level as trading a starting pitcher to a division rival. Guthrie MIGHT have been a three or four game improvement over what Boston settles for this year. I find it difficult to believe that they didn't consider him or even ask about him. What we don't know is the response they got.


There is something we don't know.....what Boston (or anyone else) offered. That is assuming Boston even called.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #44 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 9:31 pm

It's not an opinion it's a fact, they traded within the division lol. It wasn't as big of a trade but a trade is still a trade.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #45 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 10:11 pm

Matt P wrote:It's not an opinion it's a fact, they traded within the division lol. It wasn't as big of a trade but a trade is still a trade.


Whatever.....................
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