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O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #16 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 10:55 am

JoseB wrote:Now we should trade Adam Jones for Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado.


I'm sorry, but IMO that's a bad trade regardless of the reasons. Change your suggestion to Jones for two solid prospects and I'm on board.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #17 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 11:02 am

Just a thought but would anyone feel better about this trade if we traded Lindstrom for Koji, straight up?
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #18 by JoseB » February 6th, 2012, 11:03 am

You're right. Two solid prospects would absolutely be better. I was just thinking about this coming season. I understand it's a short sighted plan, but I'm desperate for a team that can win even a few more games...
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #19 by Zach » February 6th, 2012, 11:56 am

Short sighted is exactly the reason that this Guthrie trade is just as bad as the proposed trade with the Braves. We got no prospects in the deal and Hammel and Lindstrom, regardless of what they give us this year, are not building blocks for the future. We are not going to storm the AL East this year and make it to the playoffs. It is an unfeasible expectation. Therefore we need to be building for a few years down the road. As for Lindstrom for Koji I really like the idea. Koji has a much lower career WHIP which I think says a lot more about a reliever than his ERA (which is also lower career wise). That being said Im not sure the rangers would go for that deal.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #20 by Tucker Blair » February 6th, 2012, 12:13 pm

Not the greatest trade I have ever seen...

But I will say this. Guthrie was not going to be on the club next year most likely. The Orioles apparently think that Hammel and Lindstrom both fill roles on the club that they lacked. I like Lindstrom actually and welcome him to the Bullpen. I don't think Hammel is or ever will be as good as Guthrie. But I think the fans are overreacting a bit to this trade.

Yes, the Orioles could and should have gotten some young and controllable talent. I think we can all agree on that. But as it seems, no one was interested in giving that up for him.

So while I do not think this trade is good by any means, I do not think it is as bad as people are making it out to be.
The rotation is going to be EXTREMELY exciting to watch now. I can't wait to see what happens in ST

They must feel that someone is going to step up and fill those ~200 innings that the trade left
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #21 by JoseB » February 6th, 2012, 12:20 pm

Obviously Duquette is not looking to trade for prospects. Lindstrom and Hammel?? If he's looking to trade Adam Jones for anything other than 2 or 3 good prospects, it might as well be for Prado and Jurrjens.. That's all I'm saying. That said, I agree the best way would be to get prospects in return for our trade chips, but that ship sailed with Guthrie..
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #22 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 1:04 pm

JoseB wrote:I'm desperate for a team that can win even a few more games...


I feel your pain but ..... at what cost? I'd rather spend this year (and maybe next) evaluating what we have in the system and acquiring broken talent (A J Burnett?) with an eye towards rehabilitating and then trading them for pieces we can use for the future. Spending our limited resources (tradable talent) on insignificant wins this year could delay fielding a team that might be a REAL contender.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #23 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 1:13 pm

Zach wrote:Short sighted is exactly the reason that this Guthrie trade is just as bad as the proposed trade with the Braves. We got no prospects in the deal and Hammel and Lindstrom, regardless of what they give us this year, are not building blocks for the future.


Let's hope that DD can turn these two into future building blocks. If they have solid first halves they might bring back some legitimate prospects. I sure HOPE that was the idea with this trade.

Zach wrote:As for Lindstrom for Koji I really like the idea. Koji has a much lower career WHIP which I think says a lot more about a reliever than his ERA (which is also lower career wise). That being said Im not sure the rangers would go for that deal.


I'm not sure the Rangers have much of a choice. They tried trading Koji to the Blue Jays and he invoked his no trade clause. Texas is now discussing him with the As but I can't imagine they would give up anything for him unless he says he wants to play there. It seems that the Rangers REALLY want to move him but there simply isn't anyplace else he wants to go other than Baltimore.

Maybe Koji wants to play here because we will have two other pitchers that speak Japanese. It would certainly be a comfort zone for him and we might generate wins from "The Sushi Line". Chen to Wada in the seventh to Koji in the ninth. SAYONARA!
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #24 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 1:22 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:Yes, the Orioles could and should have gotten some young and controllable talent. I think we can all agree on that. But as it seems, no one was interested in giving that up for him.


What concerns me is that DD may have been limited by one of Peter Angelos' DON'TS

DON'T trade within your division
DON'T payoff a contract in mid season
DON'T include money in a trade even if it means getting better talent in return
DON'T admit that Peter Angelos' decisions and actions have made things worse


Who knows what we might have gotten in return from Boston if we would have sent about 4 to 5M to them along with Guthrie. They NEED a SP like him in the A L East. The Blue Jays were another option. It's foolish to think we're somehow going to prevent Guthrie from joining any of those clubs just because we traded him somewhere else. He can always be flipped there or even sign with an A L East team after the season.

If we had to settle for what the Rockies gave us because of one of PA's DON'TS then he has hurt the team AGAIN!
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #25 by Why Not? » February 6th, 2012, 2:40 pm

I'm torn on this. I usually just root for the uniform, but Guthrie was such an outstanding dude. I hate to see him go.

I also think that we (the fans) have overvalued Guthrie and what we got in exchange for him seems to confirm that notion. If Guthrie was going to be mopey this year because of arbitration and the promise of another 15 or so losses, maybe it WAS time to cut him loose.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #26 by Why Not? » February 6th, 2012, 2:46 pm

ofahn wrote:
Let's hope that DD can turn these two into future building blocks. If they have solid first halves they might bring back some legitimate prospects. I sure HOPE that was the idea with this trade.


Neither of these guys (nor Guthrie) are going to bring top-shelf prospects in return. They are useful players, but nobody is going to give up much for good-not-great players approaching free agency.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #27 by birdwatcher55 » February 6th, 2012, 2:48 pm

ofahn wrote:MLB Trade Rumors reports this morning that the Orioles are in serious discussions with the Colorado Rockies to trade Jeremy Guthrie for starting RH pitcher Jason Hammel and RH reliever Matt Lindstrom. Adding further credibility to the rumor is that Guthrie's arbitration hearing scheduled for this morning may have been postponed.

If this rumor is true and Hammel and Lindstrom are all we're getting for Guthrie then I have to seriously question this trade. Guthrie is a proven starting pitcher in the AL East and should be worth at least one solid (B+ or Grade 4) prospect. Hammel looks to be Guthrie's clone and has two years of control. Lindstrom is an average short reliever with one year of control. Unless there's another piece coming to the Orioles, or this is the beginning of another trade; I don't get it. The argument we heard all winter for NOT trading Guthrie was that he was needed to "stabilize" the rotation. That was something I was willing to sacrifice for a quality prospect BUT, these two guys.

Does anyone have any more insight on this?
Just curious could you expound a bit more on why you think Hammel "looks to be Guthrie's clone"??? Thanks


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/r ... thrie.html
8-) 8-)
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #28 by birdwatcher55 » February 6th, 2012, 2:50 pm

I agree with your line of reasoning. Guthrie never has been a winning pitcher here and at the end of the day that guy is not going to get your high end prospects 8-)
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #29 by birdwatcher55 » February 6th, 2012, 2:53 pm

JoseB wrote:Now we should trade Adam Jones for Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado. Then go out and sign Cespedes to play CF. Jurrjens can be our ace.. Jurrjens, Chen, Hammel, Hunter, Britton.

I wonder if that is going to happen next??? 8-) This could be all part of DD's big picture plan...
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #30 by A_K » February 6th, 2012, 3:40 pm

I'm going to lose my mind if I see one more person defend the trade by saying we weren't going to get high-end prospects for Guthrie.

No ****!

Since when are we in a position to turn up our noses at mid-level prospects? Or, since when are middling 30-year-old veteran pitchers considered superior to mid-level prospects FOR A TEAM THAT HAS NO REALISTIC HOPE OF FINISHING BETTER THAN LAST PLACE THIS YEAR.

Sigh.
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