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O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #1 by Jordan Tuwiner » February 6th, 2012, 8:52 am

https://twitter.com/#!/danconnollysun/s ... 1869843458

#Orioles & #Rockies nearing agreement 2 swap RHP Jeremy Guthrie for 2 players, likely RHPs Jason Hammel and Matt Lindstrom, accdg to sces


Not sure I understand this move.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #2 by Jordan Tuwiner » February 6th, 2012, 8:58 am

Done deal now: https://twitter.com/#!/Ken_Rosenthal/st ... 2595377152

Source: #Orioles to send Guthrie to #Rockies for Lindstrom and Hammel. Confirming report by @danconnollysun. #MLB
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Are The Orioles About To Trade Jeremy Guthrie To The Rockies?

PostPost #3 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 8:58 am

MLB Trade Rumors reports this morning that the Orioles are in serious discussions with the Colorado Rockies to trade Jeremy Guthrie for starting RH pitcher Jason Hammel and RH reliever Matt Lindstrom. Adding further credibility to the rumor is that Guthrie's arbitration hearing scheduled for this morning may have been postponed.

If this rumor is true and Hammel and Lindstrom are all we're getting for Guthrie then I have to seriously question this trade. Guthrie is a proven starting pitcher in the AL East and should be worth at least one solid (B+ or Grade 4) prospect. Hammel looks to be Guthrie's clone and has two years of control. Lindstrom is an average short reliever with one year of control. Unless there's another piece coming to the Orioles, or this is the beginning of another trade; I don't get it. The argument we heard all winter for NOT trading Guthrie was that he was needed to "stabilize" the rotation. That was something I was willing to sacrifice for a quality prospect BUT, these two guys.

Does anyone have any more insight on this?


http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/r ... thrie.html
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #4 by Jordan Tuwiner » February 6th, 2012, 9:04 am

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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #5 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 9:09 am

One of my first thoughts is that the pre arbitration negotiations became so contentious that the Orioles felt he would become a negative influence in Spring camp. I JUST DON"T UNDERSTAND WHY HE WASN'T TRADED EARLIER IN THE WINTER!
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #6 by Zach » February 6th, 2012, 9:33 am

This trade makes absolutely no sense. If you are willing to settle this much I don't understand why you wouldn't just wait until closer to the trading deadline during the season and let contenders see just how much they need some pitching down the stretch. At least when Macphail made trades some upside could be seen from them...
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #7 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 9:37 am

Actually I don't know now that I have researched more about Hammel.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #8 by ofahn » February 6th, 2012, 9:53 am

We designated Clay Rapada to make room for the extra pitcher from the trade. In effect, we traded Guthrie and Rapada for Hammel and Lindstrom. There HAS to be SOMETHING more about this trade they we don't know yet.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #9 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 9:59 am

2009 - 3.71FIP 3.75xFIP 3.9WAR
2010 - 3.70FIP 3.66xFIP 3.9WAR

Both of those seasons are better than any season Guthrie ever had.

Not sure what happened to him last season though.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #10 by Jordan Tuwiner » February 6th, 2012, 10:09 am

Matt P wrote:2009 - 3.71FIP 3.75xFIP 3.9WAR
2010 - 3.70FIP 3.66xFIP 3.9WAR

Both of those seasons are better than any season Guthrie ever had.

Not sure what happened to him last season though.

O's must think he'll return to '09/'10 form.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #11 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 10:10 am

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. I also think Guthrie's trade value was extremely overrated by Orioles fans and I myself am guilty of that too.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #12 by Shorebirdfan » February 6th, 2012, 10:19 am

I agree that as fans we over value our own players, but this seems on the surface to be a little extreme. Not a fan of this deal.
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #13 by Matt P » February 6th, 2012, 10:20 am

Ken Rosenthal:
The Baltimore Orioles should have traded right-hander Jeremy Guthrie at the non-waiver deadline last season, or even before. His value was higher when he was further away from free agency, under greater club control.



Instead, the Orioles made a deal that is all too typical of them, waiting too long to move Guthrie and receiving too little in return. They need prospects, genuine prospects, and they did not get one in the deal that they completed with the Colorado Rockies on Monday.



Guthrie for right-handed starter Jason Hammel and reliever Matt Lindstrom makes sense in a vacuum. The combined salaries of Hammel and Lindstrom in 2012 will be in the range of Guthrie’s. And the Orioles will trumpet that they acquired a combined four years of control for one.



Problem is, Hammel, 29, and Lindstrom, 31, will not be part of the Orioles’ next contending team. They likely will not even help the Orioles advance toward contention. They are mediocre veterans – Lindstrom may be a little better than that - while Guthrie, 32, is a pitcher who had actual value.



The word “had” is applicable not because of Guthrie’s performance – he pitched gallantly as a No. 1 starter in the AL East, averaging nearly 200 innings and compiling an ERA-plus of 106 over the past five seasons. But the formula for trades is always the same: The higher a player’s salary, the closer he is to free agency, the less a team gets in return.



New Orioles general manager Dan Duquette inherited the situation; his predecessor, Andy MacPhail, was the executive who steadfastly held on to Guthrie. Perhaps Duquette could have made a better deal earlier in the off-season, involving a greater number of suitors. But heck, the Orioles didn’t hire Duquette until Nov. 6.



So, welcome to another episode of, “As the Orioles churn.”



Hammel, who has a career ERA-plus of 92, will fit somewhere in the O's rotation, but don’t expect anything close to Guthrie. Lindstrom has now been traded three straight off-seasons, acquiring the reputation of a reliever who is not entirely trustworthy.



Guthrie, on the other hand, will be the Rockies’ No. 1 starter, enabling the club to ask less of their 25-and-under rotation candidates – right-handers Jhoulys Chacin, Juan Nicasio and Alex White, lefty Drew Pomeranz, etc.



The Rockies believe Guthrie will benefit from pitching for a better club, benefit from joining an organization that doesn’t change pitching coaches seemingly every year. Their bullpen, bolstered by the additions of several youngsters in off-season trades, should be deep enough to withstand the loss of Lindstrom.



And guess what?



If the Rockies fail to contend, they can flip Guthrie at the deadline. The Toronto Blue Jays would be one team with interest, sources say; the Jays might not contend either, but could acquire Guthrie with the idea of signing him long-term.



Guthrie might be the best starting pitcher available in July. His value would spike even though he would be only two months from free agency. And here’s the final dagger from the Orioles’ perspective:



The Rockies probably could make a better deal for him than the O’s just did.


http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbb ... _post=true
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #14 by Zach » February 6th, 2012, 10:35 am

On a side note it will be interesting to see Guthrie's home run totals in Denver. He always did struggle with keeping the ball in the park
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Re: O's trade Guthrie to Rockies for Hammel, Lindstrom

PostPost #15 by JoseB » February 6th, 2012, 10:40 am

Now we should trade Adam Jones for Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado. Then go out and sign Cespedes to play CF. Jurrjens can be our ace.. Jurrjens, Chen, Hammel, Hunter, Britton.
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