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What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #31 by birdwatcher55 » January 20th, 2012, 3:46 pm

Thank God Joe Jordan is history. His abysmal records speaks for itself 8-)
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #32 by ofahn » January 20th, 2012, 7:53 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Thank God Joe Jordan is history. His abysmal records speaks for itself 8-)


On what basis do you say that?

Let's look at a year by year basis.

2005
Brandon Snyder was a disappointment but that was almost a foregone conclusion when he hurt his shoulder and had to move from catcher. I see him as a partial development failure. Garrett Olson was a disappointment that might be blamed on development but he has over three years of ML service time. Reimold has been a quality player when he's been healthy. Brandon Erbe and Chorye Spoone may be some of the most talented pitchers we have ever drafted that may never pitch in the bigs. Injuries destroyed them. There's no question in my mind that they are development problems. David Hernandez is considered an impact reliever. Tanner Scheppers was drafted in the 29th round but didn't sign. He was later a 1st round pick.

2006
There's no question that Rowell was a scouting failure but he was also a development failure. His attitude manifested itself quickly yet he was passed up the system becuase the development people didn't want to report more failures to Angelos. Pedro Beato now has one year of ML service time. Ryan Adams may win the 2B job this spring. Zach Britton is a future star. Blake Davis may never be a regular but he played in the majors. Jason Berken has over two years service time and could be considered a development issue.

2007
Matt Wieters. I repeat, Matt Wieters. Jake Arrieta could be seen as a development failure despite the fact that he has shown he can be a successful ML starter. Joe Mahoney is still a prospect that has had injury problems or he might have made the majors by now. Matt Angle may be on the 25 man roster this year. Dan Klein was drafted in the 26th round and we drafted him again in 2010 in the 3rd.

2008
Brian Matusz is a ML caliber pitcher that was a development failure and he suffered for it last year. Xavier Avery, L J Hoes, and Robert Bundy would make the top 15 prospect list of almost any team in baseball; and there are at least four more players in that class that have a chance of playing in the majors.

2009
Matt Hobgood was a BUDGET pick that was poorly developed. There are ten more picks in that draft that are considered legitimate prospects.

I won't address the last two drafts because the players have not yet had the chance to develop.

I see two trends in Jordan's drafts. He could have done SO much more with a more reasonable budget, and he turned real talent over to a development staff that failed miserably. Part of the reason we malign the farm system so much is that we had so many holes on the ML roster that we would have needed TWO farm systems to fill them. It was inexcusable that Jordan was not given 50% more money to spend each draft to add the additional talent to a system that couldn't supply the big team fast enough.

Add to that the fact that our development system would have had to improve dramatically to reach the level of HORRIBLE and you can see why I don't blame Jordan for this mess.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #33 by thezeroes » January 20th, 2012, 11:48 pm

Thank You ofahn. Well stated and thought out.

With the added pieces to the developmental side of the ball-club, I have a very good feeling for the advancement of Jordan's latest drafts and in this I include Hobgood.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #34 by Matt P » January 21st, 2012, 2:41 am

How can you use the budget pick excuse on Hobgood?
Leake signed for 2.3 million.
Minor signed for 2.42 million.
Hobgood signed for 2.4 million.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #35 by ofahn » January 21st, 2012, 9:09 am

Matt P wrote:How can you use the budget pick excuse on Hobgood?
Leake signed for 2.3 million.
Minor signed for 2.42 million.
Hobgood signed for 2.4 million.


Because they all signed AFTER Hobgood and they all were demanding a LOT more money. I believe (but am not sure) that Leake signed a major league contract that guaranteed him almost the same amount in salary as his bonus.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #36 by Matt P » January 22nd, 2012, 11:21 pm

There were rumors Strassburg was demanding 30+ million and look how that turned out. You can't believe every report you read.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #37 by ofahn » January 23rd, 2012, 1:03 am

Matt P wrote:There were rumors Strassburg was demanding 30+ million and look how that turned out. You can't believe every report you read.


OK, but how does that relate to the issue at hand?
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #38 by Matt P » January 23rd, 2012, 1:20 am

Because you said "they all were demanding a LOT more money". How do you know that for a fact?
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #39 by ofahn » January 23rd, 2012, 7:00 am

Matt P wrote:Because you said "they all were demanding a LOT more money". How do you know that for a fact?


I read the MULTIPLE national news stories about that draft written before and after it took place.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #40 by Matt P » January 23rd, 2012, 1:34 pm

I guess everything you read is true.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #41 by ofahn » January 23rd, 2012, 4:49 pm

Matt P wrote:I guess everything you read is true.


Perhaps Joe Jordan thought so. Or maybe he actually spoke with those players' agents. Just a thought..................
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #42 by Matt P » January 24th, 2012, 12:00 am

Every agent is going to claim they want much more than they know they are going to get. It's called negotiating.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #43 by ofahn » January 24th, 2012, 12:13 am

Matt P wrote:Every agent is going to claim they want much more than they know they are going to get. It's called negotiating.


And scouting directors develop a sense of when they mean it.

Let's face it. If Jordan would have had an extra lousy 2M to work with in that draft he could have drafted anyone he wanted with the first pick without having to worry about whether he had the money to sign him and still picked up the bevy of quality pitchers he added in the later rounds. I think he felt he needed to make sure he could sign his 1st rounder to keep the FO and ownership off his back.

As I remember it he had to get permission to sign the last two guys and I think that Bobby Bundy was one of them. Can anyone confirm this?
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #44 by Matt P » January 25th, 2012, 1:08 am

He didn't need another 2M to draft and sign Leake or Minor.
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Re: What Does Baseball America's 2012 Orioles' Prospect List Tell Us?

PostPost #45 by ofahn » January 25th, 2012, 8:12 am

Matt P wrote:He didn't need another 2M to draft and sign Leake or Minor.


And you know this because.................
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