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Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #1 by ofahn » January 9th, 2012, 9:03 am

http://orioles-nation.com/2012/01/09/sh ... l-of-fame/

Steroid use, whether proven or just suspected, has become a factor in voting for the Hall of Fame. Do you think that players should be evaluated differently for proven or suspected performance enhancing drug (PEDs) use during the “Steroid Era”, or do you think their performance should be judged against their peers?

Do you believe there are any players that have been unfairly evaluated for Hall of Fame admission by proven or suspected PED use? If so, which ones and why.

Do you believe there are any players from the “Steroid Era” that should never be voted into the Hall of Fame because of (PEDs)? If so, which ones and why.

After you have posted your opinions please use this link to vote in the poll http://poll.fm/3gtyf
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #2 by Matt P » January 9th, 2012, 11:52 am

I believe it should. It tarnishes the game and any milestones/records that were set by someone proven to have been on steroids should be removed from the record books.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #3 by ofahn » January 9th, 2012, 12:16 pm

Matt P wrote:I believe it should. It tarnishes the game and any milestones/records that were set by someone proven to have been on steroids should be removed from the record books.


Are you also saying that those HOFers that have admitted to using Greenies should also be removed? That would be quite a list.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #4 by osforlife » January 9th, 2012, 3:12 pm

Yes. Although we don't know how much it effected their play, it's cheating and thats the bottom line. Not only disqualified from the Hall of Fame, but record books too.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #5 by birdwatcher55 » January 9th, 2012, 3:56 pm

Put them in; you still have to hit the baseball. And while you are at it, put Rose in as well. We've already beaten that horse to death. The guy belongs in Cooperstown. Just don't ask him to handicap games for you :lol:
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #6 by ofahn » January 9th, 2012, 4:02 pm

osforlife wrote:Yes. Although we don't know how much it effected their play, it's cheating and thats the bottom line. Not only disqualified from the Hall of Fame, but record books too.


So, you're saying that EVERYONE that has admitted to using Greenies should be eliminated from the Hall of Fame? Do you have an idea of how many players that would be and the NAMES on that list. You're talking about gutting the HOF.

If you use the same standard that most sportswriters are using that would mean that NO player from the early 50s until the late 80s would eligible for the HOF, and if they have already been admitted they should be expelled. Is that really what you're saying?
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #7 by Tucker Blair » January 9th, 2012, 8:16 pm

I pretty much agree with what you say ofahn.

It's at the point where we just have to accept that an entire generation was built around this. You just have to accept that it had become almost a "standard". All the players that deserve to make the HOF that did them, most likely made it anyways. And even if you argued they didn't, they were still at the top of the game for many years to come.

It's always going to be a touchy subject though.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #8 by ofahn » January 9th, 2012, 8:51 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:I pretty much agree with what you say ofahn.

It's at the point where we just have to accept that an entire generation was built around this. You just have to accept that it had become almost a "standard". All the players that deserve to make the HOF that did them, most likely made it anyways. And even if you argued they didn't, they were still at the top of the game for many years to come.

It's always going to be a touchy subject though.


I had a conversation with my son today in which he argued that we should try to identify which players may have been squeaky clean and only consider them for Hall admission. I raised this scenario:

Suppose you have a pitcher named Johnny Clean. He has NEVER used any form of PED. But he plays on a team that during his career always had at least five regular fielders or hitters that did. All of THEIR performances would have been enhanced. PEDs would have made their bodies stronger and given them more endurance. A 3B would have had a faster reaction time, an extra step, and a stronger throw to 1B. An OF would have the extra step in chasing down a ball and a stronger throw to a base. The C would have had a faster reaction time against a base stealer and a stronger throw to 2B. Once the ball left Johnny Clean's hand many beneficial things would have happened because of OTHER players using PEDs that would have benefited Johnny Clean and improved his stats and success. That's before you consider that his teammates would have been better producers at the plate, which would have given him more runs. That could have resulted in him winning more games.

Johnny Clean hasn't touched an aspirin and he has benefited from PEDs. THAT'S what makes it impossible to pick and choose which players were "clean" and which ones weren't, and why it necessary to simply evaluated ALL players from the "Steroids Era" against their competition. EVERY PLAYER WAS AFFECTED.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #9 by osforlife » January 9th, 2012, 10:07 pm

ofahn wrote:
osforlife wrote:Yes. Although we don't know how much it effected their play, it's cheating and thats the bottom line. Not only disqualified from the Hall of Fame, but record books too.


So, you're saying that EVERYONE that has admitted to using Greenies should be eliminated from the Hall of Fame? Do you have an idea of how many players that would be and the NAMES on that list. You're talking about gutting the HOF.

If you use the same standard that most sportswriters are using that would mean that NO player from the early 50s until the late 80s would eligible for the HOF, and if they have already been admitted they should be expelled. Is that really what you're saying?

I'm not sure when the HGH rule came into use, but whoever illegally took steriods should be disqualified from the Hall of Fame. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Or you could just put an asterisk by all the players who cheated their way in.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #10 by ofahn » January 9th, 2012, 10:13 pm

osforlife wrote:
ofahn wrote:
osforlife wrote:Yes. Although we don't know how much it effected their play, it's cheating and thats the bottom line. Not only disqualified from the Hall of Fame, but record books too.


So, you're saying that EVERYONE that has admitted to using Greenies should be eliminated from the Hall of Fame? Do you have an idea of how many players that would be and the NAMES on that list. You're talking about gutting the HOF.

If you use the same standard that most sportswriters are using that would mean that NO player from the early 50s until the late 80s would eligible for the HOF, and if they have already been admitted they should be expelled. Is that really what you're saying?

I'm not sure when the HGH rule came into use, but whoever illegally took steriods should be disqualified from the Hall of Fame. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Or you could just put an asterisk by all the players who cheated their way in.


But the question I raised was GREENIES (amphetamines) use. The impression you gave me was that ALL of the Greenies user should be kicked out of the Hall. That would include Brooks and Frank Robinson, Jim Palmer, Eddie Murray, Hank Aaron, Bob Gibson, Mickey Mantle, and a large group of other players.

it's cheating and thats the bottom line. Not only disqualified from the Hall of Fame, but record books too.


Is THAT what you're saying?
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #11 by Matt P » January 10th, 2012, 12:55 am

ofahn wrote:
Matt P wrote:I believe it should. It tarnishes the game and any milestones/records that were set by someone proven to have been on steroids should be removed from the record books.


Are you also saying that those HOFers that have admitted to using Greenies should also be removed? That would be quite a list.

I don't know what Greenies are.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #12 by ofahn » January 10th, 2012, 1:16 am

Matt P wrote:
ofahn wrote:
Matt P wrote:I believe it should. It tarnishes the game and any milestones/records that were set by someone proven to have been on steroids should be removed from the record books.


Are you also saying that those HOFers that have admitted to using Greenies should also be removed? That would be quite a list.

I don't know what Greenies are.


Amphetamines. Also known as speed, bennies, or uppers. They were used like Tylenol by players from the early 50s until the late 80s.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #13 by Matt P » January 10th, 2012, 1:25 am

Well, I don't know enough about them to give an opinion on them. Maybe I'll research it a bit this week before classes start next week. If I do I'll let you know.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #14 by ofahn » January 10th, 2012, 8:25 am

Matt P wrote:Well, I don't know enough about them to give an opinion on them. Maybe I'll research it a bit this week before classes start next week. If I do I'll let you know.


Go back to the first post in the thread and use the link that gets you to the article on the Home page of this website. Hope that helps.
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Re: Should Steroid Use Disqualify A Player From The Hall Of Fame?

PostPost #15 by osforlife » January 10th, 2012, 2:59 pm

ofahn wrote:
osforlife wrote:
osforlife wrote:Yes. Although we don't know how much it effected their play, it's cheating and thats the bottom line. Not only disqualified from the Hall of Fame, but record books too.


So, you're saying that EVERYONE that has admitted to using Greenies should be eliminated from the Hall of Fame? Do you have an idea of how many players that would be and the NAMES on that list. You're talking about gutting the HOF.

If you use the same standard that most sportswriters are using that would mean that NO player from the early 50s until the late 80s would eligible for the HOF, and if they have already been admitted they should be expelled. Is that really what you're saying?

I'm not sure when the HGH rule came into use, but whoever illegally took steriods should be disqualified from the Hall of Fame. Yes, that's what I'm saying. Or you could just put an asterisk by all the players who cheated their way in.


But the question I raised was GREENIES (amphetamines) use. The impression you gave me was that ALL of the Greenies user should be kicked out of the Hall. That would include Brooks and Frank Robinson, Jim Palmer, Eddie Murray, Hank Aaron, Bob Gibson, Mickey Mantle, and a large group of other players.

If the drug was used after when the rule was enforced, yes.
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