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What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #1 by ofahn » January 9th, 2012, 10:38 am

The Padres traded 1B Anthony Rizzo to the Chicago Cubs last week. This move gives Chicago their (projected) 1B of the future and takes them out of the Prince Fielder sweepstakes. I believe the Orioles’ management can learn something from this transaction.

Passing up Fielder for Rizzo removes any doubt that the Cubs are in a full fledged rebuilding program. Fielder would have put up good numbers in Wrigley and assured that the seats would have been full of fans for the next couple of years. It also would have meant the Cubs would have tried to surround Fielder with players good enough to keep them in the wildcard race until mid to late August, year after year. Chicago’s new owners wanted something different – a winner, and Theo Epstein knows something about turning a perennial lost cause into a winner.

With the Dodgers and Mets temporarily on the financial sidelines the Cubs are probably the third most financially capable team in baseball. A 6/160M commitment to Fielder was within their budget. Epstein instead chose to trade his most marketable players for prospects so that he could build a winner and then support it with a strong farm system. This method will probably produce some 90 games or more losing seasons for a year or two, but it gives the Cubs the best chance of being a consistent winner. Certainly, a much better chance than year after year of 80 to 85 win seasons that half way measures have and would accomplish for that team.

Despite the fact that the Cubs have minimal organic talent on the horizon they have chosen to forgo premier “free” agents as part of their rebuilding process. Perhaps they have learned that such an approach never really works. It would not come as a shock to me if Theo Epstein uses some of the money they won’t be spending on big money “free” agents to invest in international talent before the new rules on spending limits take effect in July.

What I find most ironic is that the Orioles have a better stocked farm system than the Cubs at this point even if most of our real talent finished last season at A ball or below. Unfortunately, we have not yet committed to the rebuilding process that could make us a perennial winner.

Do you think the Orioles should rebuild around Matt Wieters and Zach Britton or do you believe we should try to “win now”? Please explain why?
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #2 by Matt P » January 9th, 2012, 11:51 am

Although I do not think they will ever do it, I believe a full rebuild is necessary. Not a rebuild around Wieters and Britton but an entire rebuild.

What needs to be done is a look at the roster, a decision on who will be on this team in 2015 with more than 2 years left on their service time or contract, and once those players have been identified anyone with any trade value needs to be dealt. Maybe not everyone this off season but by the start of next season. Some players could use a bounce back season this year to re-establish some value, I would hang onto them (Markakis comes to mind).

It's not pretty, the team will lose around 100 games for the next 3 seasons, and the casual fans will not be happy at all. However, in order to build a long term success that can compete from 2015-2025 I feel it is necessary.

I don't really like getting into big discussions about it because I don't think it will ever happen though.
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #3 by Zach » January 9th, 2012, 12:03 pm

I don't think that trading away Britton and Weiters is the solution for the Orioles. They will be productive players for years to come and we need something to build around. If you notice, the cubs did not trade away Garza who is their building block and young talent. I think the problem with the orioles is an unwillingness to trade older players when their value peaks. We have seen this with Guts, Scott, Brian Roberts, and the list goes on. This is where we could have built up our farm system and gotten the talent to build for the future. There needs to be a philosophical shift within the warehouse to get the talent even if it means trading away a player we can't immediately replace. Getting the prospects for Guts and having our young pitching prospects struggle a little will do better for us in the long term and even in the short term we couldn't really have done much worse anyway. His presence couldn't propel us past a top 5 pick.

That being said we should be selective with who we choose to build around. PItching is obviously a hot commodity that every franchise covets making britton an ideal candidate to build around. Catching is another such commodity making Weiters invaluable. His production thus far I feel is just a partial showing of his potential. Jones on the other hand is an above average toolsy CF which can easily be replaced. Provided the incoming value is sufficient, this should fall into the same category right now as trading Guts.
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #4 by Matt P » January 9th, 2012, 12:08 pm

I didn't mean trade Wieters and Britton. I just meant if they are going to be on the team for 2015 and beyond keep them, if not trade them by next season. Britton will be, not sure how much longer Wieters is under control for though.
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #5 by birdwatcher55 » January 9th, 2012, 3:55 pm

Rizzo is overrated. This is his third organization in a year. What does that tell you??????
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #6 by ofahn » January 9th, 2012, 4:10 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Rizzo is overrated. This is his third organization in a year. What does that tell you??????


Your point is valid but irrelevant to the issue at hand. The Cubs have decided to do a full on rebuild and I don't think that anyone will argue that Theo Epstein doesn't know how to build a winner.
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #7 by birdwatcher55 » January 9th, 2012, 4:13 pm

ofahn wrote:
birdwatcher55 wrote:Rizzo is overrated. This is his third organization in a year. What does that tell you??????


Your point is valid but irrelevant to the issue at hand. The Cubs have decided to do a full on rebuild and I don't think that anyone will argue that Theo Epstein doesn't know how to build a winner.

We''ll find out if Theo can build without a $180 million dollar payroll and some of Duquette's left over "nuggets." :lol:
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #8 by Matt P » January 10th, 2012, 12:53 am

birdwatcher55 wrote:Rizzo is overrated. This is his third organization in a year. What does that tell you??????

What does it tell you that the GM who traded him as part of a package for Adrian Gonzalez traded for him for his new team?
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #9 by birdwatcher55 » January 10th, 2012, 6:52 am

Matt P wrote:
birdwatcher55 wrote:Rizzo is overrated. This is his third organization in a year. What does that tell you??????

What does it tell you that the GM who traded him as part of a package for Adrian Gonzalez traded for him for his new team?

He obviously likes him. I have my doubts and there are plenty of scouts who would agree with me 8-)
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #10 by ofahn » January 10th, 2012, 8:34 am

birdwatcher55 wrote:
Matt P wrote:
birdwatcher55 wrote:Rizzo is overrated. This is his third organization in a year. What does that tell you??????

What does it tell you that the GM who traded him as part of a package for Adrian Gonzalez traded for him for his new team?

He obviously likes him. I have my doubts and there are plenty of scouts who would agree with me 8-)


Your point is valid but irrelevant to the issue at hand. The Cubs have decided to do a full on rebuild and I don't think that anyone will argue that Theo Epstein doesn't know how to build a winner.
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Re: What Can The Orioles Learn From The Rizzo To Cubs Trade?

PostPost #11 by Tucker Blair » January 10th, 2012, 10:13 am

ofahn wrote:
Your point is valid but irrelevant to the issue at hand. The Cubs have decided to do a full on rebuild and I don't think that anyone will argue that Theo Epstein doesn't know how to build a winner.

imo it actually remains to be seen whether he can REBUILD a team.
The team he was given in Boston was practically ready to contend but needed tweaking here and there.
This will be a pretty big test for him, and he is a smart enough person to most likely make it happen. That being said, he technically has never fully rebuilt a team before.
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