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Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #166 by ofahn » December 28th, 2011, 11:31 pm

I'm beginning to wonder if Adam Jones isn't the next Brian Roberts. I'm not talking about losing him to injury (although he hasn't been the most durable player) but rather we should trade him while his value is the highest.

I remember the debate over whether trading Brian to the Cubs was the right thing to do. Doing so would have started the rebuilding process but fans were tired of losing and wanted "to build around him". Sound familiar? About the only player in the group from the Cubs being mentioned that has turned into anything is Sean Marshall but, IF we would have made that trade in the winter of 2007 we would not have had any excuses for finishing the house cleaning and focusing on amateur player acquisition and development. Just putting Roberts on the market would have brought in the suitors and we might have had better offers. Sound familiar?

I still believe that Peter Angelos was behind the decisions to keep Roberts and forgo the rebuilding process at that time. Flash forward four years, substitute Jones for Roberts, and we're STILL losing 90 games a year and our owner STILL wants to avoid rebuilding. How Groundhog Day does THAT sound?
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #167 by Tucker Blair » December 28th, 2011, 11:37 pm

ofahn wrote:I'm beginning to wonder if Adam Jones isn't the next Brian Roberts. I'm not talking about losing him to injury (although he hasn't been the most durable player) but rather we should trade him while his value is the highest.

I remember the debate over whether trading Brian to the Cubs was the right thing to do. Doing so would have started the rebuilding process but fans were tired of losing and wanted "to build around him". Sound familiar? About the only player in the group from the Cubs being mentioned that has turned into anything is Sean Marshall but, IF we would have made that trade in the winter of 2007 we would not have had any excuses for finishing the house cleaning and focusing on amateur player acquisition and development. Just putting Roberts on the market would have brought in the suitors and we might have had better offers. Sound familiar?

I still believe that Peter Angelos was behind the decisions to keep Roberts and forgo the rebuilding process at that time. Flash forward four years, substitute Jones for Roberts, and we're STILL losing 90 games a year and our owner STILL wants to avoid rebuilding. How Groundhog Day does THAT sound?


Funny, because I was talking about that with my friend at work today. If they end up giving Jones a big contract, he could very well become that guy. As of now, It's CLEARLY Markakis. Unless he suddenly has an offensive outbreak and fulfills his contract, he will be the next Brian Roberts. But I have little doubt that Angelos was the reason Roberts was kept.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #168 by birdwatcher55 » December 29th, 2011, 2:47 pm

ofahn wrote:I'm beginning to wonder if Adam Jones isn't the next Brian Roberts. I'm not talking about losing him to injury (although he hasn't been the most durable player) but rather we should trade him while his value is the highest.

I remember the debate over whether trading Brian to the Cubs was the right thing to do. Doing so would have started the rebuilding process but fans were tired of losing and wanted "to build around him". Sound familiar? About the only player in the group from the Cubs being mentioned that has turned into anything is Sean Marshall but, IF we would have made that trade in the winter of 2007 we would not have had any excuses for finishing the house cleaning and focusing on amateur player acquisition and development. Just putting Roberts on the market would have brought in the suitors and we might have had better offers. Sound familiar?

I still believe that Peter Angelos was behind the decisions to keep Roberts and forgo the rebuilding process at that time. Flash forward four years, substitute Jones for Roberts, and we're STILL losing 90 games a year and our owner STILL wants to avoid rebuilding. How Groundhog Day does THAT sound?


20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing but that said I'm not sure what Roberts would have garnered in a trade package considering the size of his contract. As for Jones, I think the feeling in Birdland is he is ready to take off with some big numbers so dealing him now would be premature and maybe a reason why DD was trying to fleece Atlanta in recent trade talks. I think you have to give AJ another season to see if his apex continues to soar and if it does you can always trade him next offseason if you're so inclined. 8-)
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #169 by ofahn » December 29th, 2011, 3:51 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:I think you have to give AJ another season to see if his apex continues to soar and if it does you can always trade him next offseason if you're so inclined.


Yep. Just like we did with Brian Roberts and Daniel Cabrera. If you need to add young talent (and we DESPERATELY DO) you trade the most marketable, expendable player(s) you have. They would be Jones, Hardy, and Guthrie. Will losing them hurt. Of course, but that's why they will get a you a substantial return.

At some point this team will need a rebuild. We might as well get started on it NOW while we still have something to trade.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #170 by birdwatcher55 » December 29th, 2011, 4:11 pm

ofahn wrote:
birdwatcher55 wrote:I think you have to give AJ another season to see if his apex continues to soar and if it does you can always trade him next offseason if you're so inclined.


Yep. Just like we did with Brian Roberts and Daniel Cabrera. If you need to add young talent (and we DESPERATELY DO) you trade the most marketable, expendable player(s) you have. They would be Jones, Hardy, and Guthrie. Will losing them hurt. Of course, but that's why they will get a you a substantial return.

At some point this team will need a rebuild. We might as well get started on it NOW while we still have something to trade.

FYI: Roberts was a great player here for a lot of years before injuries struck and will likely end his career. Nobody ever confused him with Cabrera, who really had no idea what he was doing on the field :lol:
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #171 by ofahn » December 29th, 2011, 4:12 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:If they end up giving Jones a big contract, he could very well become that guy. As of now, It's CLEARLY Markakis. Unless he suddenly has an offensive outbreak and fulfills his contract, he will be the next Brian Roberts.


I'd like to offer a different POV on Markakis.

The last few years of his contract will be for 15M a year but the REAL value is only 11M. The reason the numbers are skewed is the team back loaded it. Never a good idea. If you look at Markakis as an 11M a year player and consider EVERYTHING he brings to a team, his contract becomes a good value. Did he develop into a 25/100 kind of hitter? No, but he still has a solid OBA and plays a rally killing RF. I think as Wieters is allowed to hit fourth on a permanent basis; and the two through five spots become Hardy, Markakis, Wieters, and Reimold you will see 40 plus doubles again. That's REALLY his game.

When pitchers know that there are players behind them that will turn mistakes into outs they become better in every aspect. Jim Palmer went to the HOF in large part because for years any ball hit to the left side of the infield would be sucked up by the twin black holes known as Robinson and Belanger. Markakis gives us that in RF.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #172 by birdwatcher55 » December 30th, 2011, 2:55 pm

ofahn wrote:
TuckerBlair89 wrote:If they end up giving Jones a big contract, he could very well become that guy. As of now, It's CLEARLY Markakis. Unless he suddenly has an offensive outbreak and fulfills his contract, he will be the next Brian Roberts.


I'd like to offer a different POV on Markakis.

The last few years of his contract will be for 15M a year but the REAL value is only 11M. The reason the numbers are skewed is the team back loaded it. Never a good idea. If you look at Markakis as an 11M a year player and consider EVERYTHING he brings to a team, his contract becomes a good value. Did he develop into a 25/100 kind of hitter? No, but he still has a solid OBA and plays a rally killing RF. I think as Wieters is allowed to hit fourth on a permanent basis; and the two through five spots become Hardy, Markakis, Wieters, and Reimold you will see 40 plus doubles again. That's REALLY his game.

When pitchers know that there are players behind them that will turn mistakes into outs they become better in every aspect. Jim Palmer went to the HOF in large part because for years any ball hit to the left side of the infield would be sucked up by the twin black holes known as Robinson and Belanger. Markakis gives us that in RF.

What planet are you from?? Markakis is not a good #3 option on most good teams; Wieters would be a better option in the three hole; and when it comes to the #4 cleanup slot we have no option really. It's a black hole. As for Reimold, it's still debatable whether he is a full time Major League starter. If you want a guy who will lend support and make everyone more lethal and change the dynamics of your lineup then you sign a legitimate cleanup hitter. That is something this organization has lacked in years. As for Palmer, you overstate the obvious: good pitchers became great with solid defense behind them. If you are trying to give us a lesson in baseball intelligence, I think you come up a little bit short when comparing those great Orioles' teams to this current cast of misfits 8-)
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #173 by ofahn » December 30th, 2011, 3:14 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:What planet are you from?? Markakis is not a good #3 option on most good teams; Wieters would be a better option in the three hole; and when it comes to the #4 cleanup slot we have no option really. It's a black hole. As for Reimold, it's still debatable whether he is a full time Major League starter. If you want a guy who will lend support and make everyone more lethal and change the dynamics of your lineup then you sign a legitimate cleanup hitter. That is something this organization has lacked in years. As for Palmer, you overstate the obvious: good pitchers became great with solid defense behind them. If you are trying to give us a lesson in baseball intelligence, I think you come up a little bit short when comparing those great Orioles' teams to this current cast of misfits


SIGH!!! Shaking head. SIGH!!!
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #174 by Matt P » December 30th, 2011, 7:56 pm

I don't get why you are shaking your head at his comment. The majority of his comments are spot on.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #175 by ofahn » December 30th, 2011, 8:22 pm

Matt P wrote:I don't get why you are shaking your head at his comment. The majority of his comments are spot o :D n.

SIGH!!! Shaking head. SIGH!!!
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #176 by Matt P » January 3rd, 2012, 12:51 am

Mind explaining what was so wrong about his post instead of acting like a child?
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #177 by ofahn » January 3rd, 2012, 8:56 am

Matt P wrote:Mind explaining what was so wrong about his post instead of acting like a child?


Please go back and CAREFULLY read the thread again. I have patiently explained ad nauseum and in detail why I think that anything but a major rebuild would just make the situation worse.

Disagreeing with someone is one thing but making comments like "What planet are you from?? or "Yeah okay.. anything you say" or "Typical moron response" or "Mind explaining what was so wrong about his post instead of acting like a child?" doesn't state a position, it just shows the writer to be intellectually bankrupt. Let's agree to set the bar higher than that.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #178 by birdwatcher55 » January 3rd, 2012, 2:08 pm

ofahn wrote:
Matt P wrote:Mind explaining what was so wrong about his post instead of acting like a child?


Please go back and CAREFULLY read the thread again. I have patiently explained ad nauseum and in detail why I think that anything but a major rebuild would just make the situation worse.

Disagreeing with someone is one thing but making comments like "What planet are you from?? or "Yeah okay.. anything you say" or "Typical moron response" or "Mind explaining what was so wrong about his post instead of acting like a child?" doesn't state a position, it just shows the writer to be intellectually bankrupt. Let's agree to set the bar higher than that.


"Intellectually bankrup??" You must have stayed awake all night to think that one up > LOL 8-)
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #179 by Jordan Tuwiner » January 3rd, 2012, 2:43 pm

I haven't had to reference the rules on ON before, but let's just remember to follow the few guidelines I've set here:
-Members should post in a way that is respectful of other users. Flaming, abusing, or taunting other posters in any way will not be tolerated.
-All complaints need to be communicated privately using either PM, "Report this Post" feature, or email.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #180 by ofahn » January 3rd, 2012, 4:25 pm

Dan Connolly is suggesting that the Orioles are focusing on Tommy Hanson. If I were the Orioles I would trade Jones for Hanson straight up faster than you can say "done deal" but I'm not sure the Braves would. They wouldn't even discuss Hanson several years ago when they were talking to the Padres about Peavy.
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