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Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #1 by Matt P » December 14th, 2011, 12:36 am

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbb ... _post=true

Do you want them?
What will it take to get them?
What would you feel comfortable giving up for them?
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #2 by Tucker Blair » December 14th, 2011, 10:34 am

Personally, I don't see how this helps the Orioles. What exactly are they gaining by getting them both?
I think it would take Jones,or Markakis (if they want to eat salary), or Reimold (as a starting point). I just think a trade for these two would put the Orioles right back into their usual spot of half-rebuild/half-trying to compete.

I like Prado, but he is not an upgrade in LF/RF and a little upgrade at 2nd or even 3rd but not enough to make this trade reasonable. I have never been a fan of Jurrjens, and I think he would get lit up in the AL East, especially with that xFIP in the 4's . I could see his ERA bouncing up to over 4 in the AL East.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #3 by hsbaseballcoach » December 14th, 2011, 2:16 pm

I think too may people poo-poo over every possible trade. I realize everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this is the place to voice those opinions, but let's try to be fair. This trade could make sense if the Os did not have to part with too much of their future. I could see moving Guthrie and Reimold - Jair is younger, has an injury history, but could be more of a true front-line starter then Guthrie. He would certainly be around when the Os are getting ready to compete again. Prado would provide insurance if Roberts is not ready and would be a better fit for the Os than Reimold. I hope everyone realizes this is going to take time, both of these potential players are in their mid-late 20s, would be under team control for a few years, and show that the administration is not standing pat. The Os need to walk before they can run with the big boys.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #4 by Tucker Blair » December 14th, 2011, 2:30 pm

hsbaseballcoach wrote:I think too may people poo-poo over every possible trade. I realize everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this is the place to voice those opinions, but let's try to be fair. This trade could make sense if the Os did not have to part with too much of their future. I could see moving Guthrie and Reimold - Jair is younger, has an injury history, but could be more of a true front-line starter then Guthrie. He would certainly be around when the Os are getting ready to compete again. Prado would provide insurance if Roberts is not ready and would be a better fit for the Os than Reimold. I hope everyone realizes this is going to take time, both of these potential players are in their mid-late 20s, would be under team control for a few years, and show that the administration is not standing pat. The Os need to walk before they can run with the big boys.


The Braves would not do that trade. It really makes no sense for them. I also do not see how Prado is a better fit for the Orioles. He can play multiple positions. So what? Reimold could easily post numbers up to the same level as Prado in terms of power and OBP.
The reason that people complain about everything is because it's the same old stuff every year by the Orioles. They need to make a decision on the direction of the club.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #5 by ofahn » December 14th, 2011, 2:37 pm

hsbaseballcoach wrote:I think too may people poo-poo over every possible trade. I realize everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this is the place to voice those opinions, but let's try to be fair. This trade could make sense if the Os did not have to part with too much of their future. I could see moving Guthrie and Reimold - Jair is younger, has an injury history, but could be more of a true front-line starter then Guthrie. He would certainly be around when the Os are getting ready to compete again. Prado would provide insurance if Roberts is not ready and would be a better fit for the Os than Reimold. I hope everyone realizes this is going to take time, both of these potential players are in their mid-late 20s, would be under team control for a few years, and show that the administration is not standing pat. The Os need to walk before they can run with the big boys.


You make your point well but isn't what you're suggesting like putting a band aid on a sucking chest wound?

Reimold can be part of our solution because of his age and service time, and IMO Guthrie should be used to obtain prospects that could join the Prospect Class of 2014 now working their way through the farm system. Why don't we be honest with ourselves that there currently aren't enough potential impact players in our farm system to build a winner and we won't have any real help coming until 2014? Once you cross that threshold you can see the benefit of trading the spare parts (Jones, Hardy, and Guthrie) for five or six B level or better prospects contemporaneous to the FO spending what's necessary to bring in young international talent.

I have been a fan since the middle sixties and I want so very much to see a winner one more time before I leave this earth. I recognize that the rebuilding that I'm suggesting might not be fast enough for me but it would allow my children to experience the same joy I used to feel watching this team playing games that mattered every September. What concerns me is that if we take the "band aid" approach that window will skip past my kids and become an uncertainty for my grandchildren.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #6 by Why Not? » December 14th, 2011, 3:24 pm

hsbaseballcoach wrote:I think too may people poo-poo over every possible trade. I realize everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this is the place to voice those opinions, but let's try to be fair. This trade could make sense if the Os did not have to part with too much of their future. I could see moving Guthrie and Reimold - Jair is younger, has an injury history, but could be more of a true front-line starter then Guthrie. He would certainly be around when the Os are getting ready to compete again. Prado would provide insurance if Roberts is not ready and would be a better fit for the Os than Reimold. I hope everyone realizes this is going to take time, both of these potential players are in their mid-late 20s, would be under team control for a few years, and show that the administration is not standing pat. The Os need to walk before they can run with the big boys.


I tend to agree. Fans overvalue the players they are familiar with and root for.

I don't think Guthrie/Reimold gets it done. Jurrjens is a better, younger pitcher than Guthrie and Prado is has put up similar production as Reimold but can play positions further up the spectrum. I don't know why the Braves would want to do this.

Would Jones for those two get it done? I suspect not. I'm not totally sure on my math, but I believe all three players (Jonesy, Jurrjens, Prodo) are under team control through 2012. Assuming no extensions are signed, this seems like a no-brainer.

Prado is insurance for Roberts at 2B and/or Davis at 3B if those guys can't play (BRob) or can't make contact (Davis). It allows us to deal Andino (who will probably never be more valuable than RIGHT NOW). Jurrjens steps right into the rotation. Of course, it leaves a hole in CF.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #7 by hsbaseballcoach » December 14th, 2011, 4:01 pm

You all make good points, my point is that Jair IMO with his youth and potential might be an upgrade over Guthrie. It is certainly a gamble, but that is the position the Orioles are in right now. Are they mortgaging the future - No. IMO all they would be giving up is a potential 4th outfielder and a reliable #3 starter for a potential #1-2 starter and a younger version of B-Rob with more versatility. I think Andino is great in the utility role, but he is not a starter. Now, you all are probably right in Reimold and Guthrie would not get it done - I would certainly not part with any of the future nucleus players.

The Os have to take a few calculated risks and a strong commitment to international scouting. I think signing one of the Cubans would also go along way - again, a calculated risk without mortgaging the future. IMO - I would shop Guthrie, Andino, Reimold, Tillman, Davis, Hunter, Reynolds, and possible Jim Johnson to get younger, more athletic and people with higher upsides. I am not sure any of these guys would have potential suiters or even get a solid return - but I would at least look. Without some kind of risk or investment, all we can expect as fans is at best mediocre baseball.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #8 by Don » December 14th, 2011, 4:32 pm

The Braves are looking for a 1A return and Jair Jurrjens is not at that level. He is a number 2 and should an accommodating package similar to his skill set.

Until the Braves drop his value, the other 29 teams will not find them as a dancing partner.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #9 by Matt P » December 14th, 2011, 7:00 pm

hsbaseballcoach wrote:I think too may people poo-poo over every possible trade. I realize everyone is entitled to an opinion, and this is the place to voice those opinions, but let's try to be fair. This trade could make sense if the Os did not have to part with too much of their future. I could see moving Guthrie and Reimold - Jair is younger, has an injury history, but could be more of a true front-line starter then Guthrie. He would certainly be around when the Os are getting ready to compete again. Prado would provide insurance if Roberts is not ready and would be a better fit for the Os than Reimold. I hope everyone realizes this is going to take time, both of these potential players are in their mid-late 20s, would be under team control for a few years, and show that the administration is not standing pat. The Os need to walk before they can run with the big boys.

Why would the Braves have any interest in Guthrie?
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #10 by Tucker Blair » December 14th, 2011, 11:43 pm

Jurrjens, 25, posted a 2.92 ERA in 152 innings last season, with a 5.3 K/9 and 2.6 BB/9. He struggled with injuries also. There is speculation whether Jurrjens has pitched over his head throughout his career, as his xFIP was around a run higher than his ERA in 2009 and 2011. His 2010 ERA (4.64) was eerily close to his xFIP in 2009 (4.28) and 2011(4.23).


That is the primary reason I do not want him or think this would be a good trade. That is going along with what I said above of course. Imagine the xFIP plus moving to the AL East. it spells disaster in my opinion.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #11 by Mike B » December 15th, 2011, 12:48 pm

I think Jurrjens is talented but I am not sure he would be much more productive then Guts in the AL East. As for Prado, I think he would be a good addition to the Orioles. Buck loves versatility and Prado provides that.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #12 by Tucker Blair » December 15th, 2011, 2:44 pm

Mike B wrote:I think Jurrjens is talented but I am not sure he would be much more productive then Guts in the AL East. As for Prado, I think he would be a good addition to the Orioles. Buck loves versatility and Prado provides that.


I wouldn't mind prado, but to give up talent for him would not benefit us. The Orioles have more than enough versatile people right now.
Angle can play all 3 OF positions
Andino can play all around the diamond
Reynolds, Reimold, Davis can play first (even Markakis LOL)
Antonelli can play 2nd and 3rd
Adams is there for 2B insurance
Flaherty is there as well and can play around too.

I am actually fine with the versatility of this club as of now.
Of course they could always upgrade, but I think they are better off seeing what Antonelli, Flaherty, Andino, Adams are capable of instead of going after Prado. He is 28 after all too.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #13 by Mike B » December 15th, 2011, 6:30 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:
Mike B wrote:I think Jurrjens is talented but I am not sure he would be much more productive then Guts in the AL East. As for Prado, I think he would be a good addition to the Orioles. Buck loves versatility and Prado provides that.


I wouldn't mind prado, but to give up talent for him would not benefit us. The Orioles have more than enough versatile people right now.
Angle can play all 3 OF positions
Andino can play all around the diamond
Reynolds, Reimold, Davis can play first (even Markakis LOL)
Antonelli can play 2nd and 3rd
Adams is there for 2B insurance
Flaherty is there as well and can play around too.

I am actually fine with the versatility of this club as of now.
Of course they could always upgrade, but I think they are better off seeing what Antonelli, Flaherty, Andino, Adams are capable of instead of going after Prado. He is 28 after all too.


I do not disagree but Prado is more talented than the others you mentioned.
He could also pop up as a regular in LF if Reimold struggles, 3rd base and 2nd base if BRob goes down again.

The name I have heard mentioned as a trade chip is Reimold. Frankly, I would not do that because I still think Reimold can and will develop into an impact left fielder.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #14 by birdwatcher55 » December 15th, 2011, 7:39 pm

My big issue is simple: why does Atlanta want to deal Jurrjens?? What do they know that we don't?? I'd be VERY wary dealing with the Braves 8-)
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Re: Jair Jurrjens and Martin Prado

PostPost #15 by Tucker Blair » December 16th, 2011, 1:08 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:My big issue is simple: why does Atlanta want to deal Jurrjens?? What do they know that we don't?? I'd be VERY wary dealing with the Braves 8-)


It's a good question to consider.
I also think it could simply be that he is the most tradeable and valuable piece they have, and that they have 3-5 arms behind him that could easily slot into his spot and pitch exceptionally well.
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