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Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #31 by A_K » December 8th, 2011, 4:00 pm

It's a pretty long lag time, plus the time of development within the system of the new prospect. And the rate of success of these dumpster dives is also very low, probably comparable to the rate of success of an A-ball prospect like Jarrett Martin or Randy Henry.

In terms of the sustainability of resources, I just don't see the logic of a supply chain that necessitates trading prospects (that have a low rate of success) for a reclamation project (that has a low rate of success) so that if it's successful we can trade that former reclamation projects for more prospects (that have a low rate of success). I understand your goal is to build the entire system, just as mine is, but it seems like a pretty inefficient way to go about things.

It's much like the logic of signing a $7 million reliever under the rationale that if he does well, he can be traded for a prospect or two at the deadline. In most occurrences, the prospects you'd receive wouldn't fetch the prorated portion of the $7 million contract if they were available on the open market. It's just a very inefficient way of going about rebuilding a franchise that's largely bereft of talent.

Better is to promote the cheap, team-controlled assets you have and build their value for a trade, or to boldly trade the major league assets that are already regarded as valuable. Use fewer resources to accomplish the same end result but in a more expedited timeline. Eveland himself was a 16th round pitcher who was never a prized asset in an organization. We've probably got a few Evelands of five years ago kicking around in the organization as we speak, but the misguided focus on reaching the mythical .500 plateau prevents us from grabbing our nuts and throwing them out there.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #32 by ofahn » December 8th, 2011, 4:23 pm

I don't understand how you jumped from five well scouted and evaluated players for a total cost of 5M to one player at 7M in order to find a nugget? The approach I suggest is not the only way to (eventually) add quality talent to an organization, it's just one more way to add young talent.

The other thing to take into consideration is that the FO feels they have an obligation to put a respectable team on the field this year. Clearly, they see Eveland (and players like him) as the way to do that.

I want to be clear that I'm not saying I believe Dana Eveland is an impact pitcher but I would like to point out that his ML WHIP was the best he has ever had in 2011, and his minor league WHIP was the best he's had since AA ball. Dan Duquette talked about his recovery last winter from bone chips. Maybe during that process he learned to stop throwing and start pitching. That would explain the loss of fastball velocity which might have actually been the cause of his improved control.

Maybe Don can get us an updated scouting report on him.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #33 by DougDE » December 8th, 2011, 4:39 pm

Depth and competition at SP is always good but....YAWN!
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #34 by A_K » December 8th, 2011, 5:17 pm

ofahn wrote:I don't understand how you jumped from five well scouted and evaluated players for a total cost of 5M to one player at 7M in order to find a nugget? The approach I suggest is not the only way to (eventually) add quality talent to an organization, it's just one more way to add young talent.

The other thing to take into consideration is that the FO feels they have an obligation to put a respectable team on the field this year. Clearly, they see Eveland (and players like him) as the way to do that.

I want to be clear that I'm not saying I believe Dana Eveland is an impact pitcher but I would like to point out that his ML WHIP was the best he has ever had in 2011, and his minor league WHIP was the best he's had since AA ball. Dan Duquette talked about his recovery last winter from bone chips. Maybe during that process he learned to stop throwing and start pitching. That would explain the loss of fastball velocity which might have actually been the cause of his improved control.

Maybe Don can get us an updated scouting report on him.


His career bests in 2011 coincide with a mere 29 major league innings in 2011. I'd be far, far, far more likely to attribute those improvements to the small sample size than to any improvements that he may or may not have made. For the most part when you go searching for explanations for why a guy outperformed his career totals during a brief stretch you end up tying yourself in knots over something that's very easily explained: he didn't have time to regress to who he truly is. You see this during the first month of every season. So-and-so is having a great year not because it's only been 4 starts and he's been fortunate in those four starts, but because he found a new grip or worked out with a different trainer in the winter or is using his slider more or something or other. More often then not, a month later he's reverted back to his career averages and all those ex-post explanations are out the window.

Here's my complaint with the idea that ownership has a "responsibility" or a "duty" to give the paying fans a competitive team, or at the very least, to make some attempt to field a competitive team: I'm a fan too. Who says which group of fans have the perspective that most needs to be taken into account by ownership? Sure, there are plenty of fans who are offended by the notion of being asked to purchase tickets to a team that has essentially forfeited the season before it even begins. But there are also fans like me, who are offended by the notion that it's a virtuous goal to spend a token amount of money to reach a .500 record. So who decides to which group of fans ownership is beholden?

I'd prefer they just pursue a championship via whatever route they decide is most fruitful. A championship. Not a .500 record.

We've gone around and around on Eveland at this point. I don't see him as a meaningful improvement for the major league product in the short term, and I don't see him as a likely asset on the trade market in the slightly longer term. There are only so many ways for us to verbalize our disagreement.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #35 by osforlife » December 8th, 2011, 6:03 pm

Is it just me or did we just give up two prospects for the other Jo-Jo Reyes of the world?
I am starting to question some of the moves Duquette is making. Drake put onto the 40-man? Antonelli to a major league deal? Henry and Miclat for Teagarden(our backup catcher who will play 30 games), Martin and Henson for Eveland(28 year old soft throwingjourney man)
If he cracks the rotation we our in trouble.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #36 by Jordan Tuwiner » December 8th, 2011, 6:07 pm

osforlife wrote:Is it just me or did we just give up two prospects for the other Jo-Jo Reyes of the world?
I am starting to question some of the moves Duquette is making. Drake put onto the 40-man? Antonelli to a major league deal? Henry and Miclat for Teagarden(our backup catcher who will play 30 games), Martin and Henson for Eveland(28 year old soft throwingjourney man)
If he cracks the rotation we our in trouble.

We did in a way, yes. Not fan of the trade.

I am fine with Drake on the 40-man -- he needed to be protected. Antonelli to a big league deal I don't mind. But definitely not liking his trades.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #37 by Shorebirdfan » December 8th, 2011, 7:28 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:I have never seen Martin pitch. But Multiple scouts and writers have been saying the Martin could end up being a solid addition to a pen in the future (not to mention a LHP with STRONG K rates). Not to mention Eveland was a non-tender candidate so the Orioles basically gave away another actual prospect (you can argue his worth) for a guy that might not have had a team by the end of the week.
I just think it is a dumb trade. I would have been fine if they had given away someone who has no value whatsoever or cash, but this is pretty dumb in my opinion.

However, Eveland could end up providing solid depth in the pen or as a long reliever (hopefully he does not start...).



I've seen Martin pitch many times (usually not for very long though) and was not impressed. He had a few good performances, but generally struggled. 65BB and 13 HBP in 110 innings. I didn't see MLB potential in him personally.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #38 by Don » December 8th, 2011, 8:51 pm

Martin is the perfect example of development failure. The kid has a borderline plus fastball with nice tailing movement typical of a left hander. His slider and change had some long term potential.

He has some mechanical flaws that need to be ironed out, but from all accounts this was something not addressed. If the get him to extend a bit further, move a bit on the rubber to allow a greater downhill stride, slightly lengthen that stride and come down the the arm to a flatter back - all in the name of keeping him from crossing himself.

I mean some solid instruction could change his entire outlook. He has the plane, arm angle, size that scream scary left hander. I feel a slight tweak or two and this kid could be an effective reliever.

My motto is you can never have too many LHP.

You should not be against Dana Eveland as he scream "toolsy". His problem was always command of the fastball. If he has learned to keep the ball down, he could be an effective arm. I would be upset giving prospects for previous MiLB free agents that have bounced around a dozen teams. He was likely to be a free agent again this winter and target it him at that time, keeping any prospect of worth in the system.

The Orioles are not in the position of giving away prospects unless it is a lock of cheap service time that can be a building block for their future needs. Again, I like Dana Eveland, but it is long shot that he fits that mold of a "building block for the future".
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #39 by osforlife » December 8th, 2011, 9:11 pm

Jordan wrote:I am fine with Drake on the 40-man -- he needed to be protected. Antonelli to a big league deal I don't mind.

I just don't think any team would pick a soon to be 25-year-old 43rd round pick who hasn't pitched effectivly above A+ yet.
I am suprised Antonelli got a big league deal. He has only had 65 PA's in the majors, those PA's came 3 years ago, and he wans't even effective in those 65 PA's. Do you think we couldn't have gotten him on a minor league deal?
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #40 by Jordan Tuwiner » December 8th, 2011, 9:33 pm

osforlife wrote:
Jordan wrote:I am fine with Drake on the 40-man -- he needed to be protected. Antonelli to a big league deal I don't mind.

I just don't think any team would pick a soon to be 25-year-old 43rd round pick who hasn't pitched effectivly above A+ yet.
I am suprised Antonelli got a big league deal. He has only had 65 PA's in the majors, those PA's came 3 years ago, and he wans't even effective in those 65 PA's. Do you think we couldn't have gotten him on a minor league deal?

Drake could be in the majors now if they had been using him as a reliever.

Antonelli was looking for a team that would give him big league playing time, so I'm not sure he'd be an Oriole without the big league deal.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #41 by ofahn » December 8th, 2011, 9:53 pm

osforlife wrote:Do you think we couldn't have gotten him on a minor league deal?


I've come to accept the extra we have to pay or do as a "pathetic" surcharge. How low we have sunk.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #42 by mthompson » December 8th, 2011, 11:07 pm

This is the lowest this organization has ever been. 2 days of posturing by duquette and all we leave the winter meetings w/ is dana eveland? What else are we going to do to improve this team? Even if we dumped markakis, jones, roberts, and more for prospects it would give me something to be interested in. Im bored w/ this whole thing. 2 trades in 2 young pitching prospects gone and 2 bum re-treds in. welcome to baltimore duquette
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #43 by Matt P » December 9th, 2011, 1:34 pm

It seems like we gave up a guy with a small chance at sticking in the majors as a reliever for a guy who will at the very least provide some depth for the 2012 starting rotation. I don't see what's so wrong with that.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #44 by A_K » December 9th, 2011, 4:52 pm

There are many guys who could "at the very least provide some depth for the 2012 starting rotation" that are available for free.
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Re: Orioles Acquire LHP Dana Eveland From LA

PostPost #45 by mthompson » December 9th, 2011, 6:33 pm

The problem is getting eveland is the only thing have done to improve our team, and i dont think he improves the orioles by even 1 win
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