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Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #46 by Matt P » October 6th, 2011, 6:59 pm

ofahn wrote:
Matt P wrote:If you were the Nationals would you give up Zimmermann for Jones?
If you were the Giants would you give up Bumgarner for Jones?

I don't think I would if I was calling the shots for either organization.


I think you might be surprised what both of those organizations will do this winter.

I wouldn't be to surprised if the Giants pulled the trigger on a deal like that to be honest. They gave up Wheeler for Beltran and they have made some other pretty stupid moves in the past. I know the Nationals really want a CF so I guess it wouldn't shock me if they made a stupid deal either. I'm not saying either organization would or wouldn't I'm just saying I don't think it would be in the best interest of either team to pull the trigger on a deal like that.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #47 by ofahn » October 6th, 2011, 7:45 pm

Matt P wrote:I'm not saying either organization would or wouldn't I'm just saying I don't think it would be in the best interest of either team to pull the trigger on a deal like that.


Different team place different values on different needs.

There is one axiom that explains business transactions of all types: the value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #48 by Matt P » October 6th, 2011, 8:03 pm

ofahn wrote:
Matt P wrote:I'm not saying either organization would or wouldn't I'm just saying I don't think it would be in the best interest of either team to pull the trigger on a deal like that.


Different team place different values on different needs.

There is one axiom that explains business transactions of all types: the value of something is what someone is willing to pay for it.

I suppose you are right but trading a potential TOR starter for a CF with 2 years left on his contract that has likely already peaked is not a smart move IMO.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #49 by ofahn » October 6th, 2011, 9:51 pm

Maybe not, but you should look at it from the other guy's POV. They would be trading potential for a proven commodity that would allow them to win now. That has a value to a team that goes beyond statistics.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #50 by Rising O's » October 7th, 2011, 6:41 am

The problem with the Giants making a trade for Jones (or Markakis) is I don't see them trading their starting pitching to do it. Get back Gary Brown and I don't know...

The Braves could offer the pitching you seek.

Trade em both and get us ready for 2014!
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #51 by Matt P » October 7th, 2011, 9:16 am

ofahn wrote:Maybe not, but you should look at it from the other guy's POV. They would be trading potential for a proven commodity that would allow them to win now. That has a value to a team that goes beyond statistics.

Bumgarner 2010 - 18 starts, 111ip, 6.97 K/9, 2.11 BB/9, 3.00 ERA, 3.66 FIP, 3.85 xFIP.
Bumgarner 2011 - 33 starts, 204.2ip, 8.40 K/9, 2.02 BB/9, 3.21 ERA, 2.67 FIP, 3.10 xFIP
Zimmermann 2009 - 16 starts, 91.1 ip, 9.07 K/9, 2.86 BB/9, 4.63 ERA, 3.59 FIP, 3.35 xFIP
Zimmermann 2010 - 7 starts, 31 ip, 7.84 K/9, 2.90 BB/9, 4.94 ERA, 5.85 FIP, 3.92 xFIP
Zimmermann 2011 - 26 starts, 161.1 ip, 6.92 K/9, 1.73 BB/9, 3.18 ERA, 3.16 FIP, 3.78 xFIP
I would not look at either of them as just potential. It's not like these are guys that have looked good in A and AA but haven't pitched well in the majors. Both guys are on the major league rosters, pitching well, and a key part of each teams future.
Adam Jones is a mediocre defensive CF who can hit around .285 with 20+ HR. He doesn't get on base well and he struggles to lay off a breaking ball in the dirt. I don't think Adam Jones makes either team "win now". I pray that we would be able to get a pitcher like a Zimmermann or Bumgarner for Jones but I just don't see how it makes any sense at all for either the Nationals or Giants to make that trade.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #52 by ofahn » October 7th, 2011, 10:11 am

Matt P wrote:Adam Jones is a mediocre defensive CF who can hit around .285 with 20+ HR. He doesn't get on base well and he struggles to lay off a breaking ball in the dirt. I don't think Adam Jones makes either team "win now". I pray that we would be able to get a pitcher like a Zimmermann or Bumgarner for Jones but I just don't see how it makes any sense at all for either the Nationals or Giants to make that trade.


I don't dispute your analysis of Jones. I question your understanding of the lack of CF talent available this winter and the value that some teams may place on him. We can agree or disagree on this until the first pitch of spring but it will be the GMs feeling pressure to win now that will make the decisions on this. There may be a Bavasi or Hendry or George Steinbrenner out there that does something out of passion instead of logic.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #53 by Jordan Tuwiner » October 9th, 2011, 11:59 pm

ofahn wrote:
Matt P wrote:Adam Jones is a mediocre defensive CF who can hit around .285 with 20+ HR. He doesn't get on base well and he struggles to lay off a breaking ball in the dirt. I don't think Adam Jones makes either team "win now". I pray that we would be able to get a pitcher like a Zimmermann or Bumgarner for Jones but I just don't see how it makes any sense at all for either the Nationals or Giants to make that trade.


I don't dispute your analysis of Jones. I question your understanding of the lack of CF talent available this winter and the value that some teams may place on him. We can agree or disagree on this until the first pitch of spring but it will be the GMs feeling pressure to win now that will make the decisions on this. There may be a Bavasi or Hendry or George Steinbrenner out there that does something out of passion instead of logic.

But is adding Jones and getting rid of Bumgarner really going to improve the Giants? Honestly I think they'd be worse with Jones and no Bumgarner. As Rising O's said they also have Gary Brown on the way.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #54 by ofahn » October 10th, 2011, 8:30 am

Jordan wrote:Honestly I think they'd be worse with Jones and no Bumgarner. As Rising O's said they also have Gary Brown on the way.


I think it comes down to the value they place on Jones. Brown is playing in the AFL right now. If he's dominant then I can see the Giants being reluctant to trade for player that might block him BUT even if Brown plays well his best projection for 2012 is to finish at AAA.

Hey, if I were the Giants I would be reluctant to trade Bumgarner too. It just comes down to how strongly they feel the need to get stronger up the middle.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #55 by Jordan Tuwiner » October 10th, 2011, 10:02 pm

I still think they'd prefer to get a CF by dealing Brown + others rather than Bumgarner.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #56 by ofahn » October 10th, 2011, 10:21 pm

Jordan wrote:I still think they'd prefer to get a CF by dealing Brown + others rather than Bumgarner.


Sure. I could see the Giants pushing a package of Brown, Eric Surkamp, and someone else. I'd leverage that against the Nationals to coerce them into improving their offer. Maybe in doing so the Giants would make the someone else a legit lower level prospect. At that point you have to seriously consider taking the deal.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #57 by Jordan Tuwiner » October 11th, 2011, 4:42 pm

ofahn wrote:
Jordan wrote:I still think they'd prefer to get a CF by dealing Brown + others rather than Bumgarner.


Sure. I could see the Giants pushing a package of Brown, Eric Surkamp, and someone else. I'd leverage that against the Nationals to coerce them into improving their offer. Maybe in doing so the Giants would make the someone else a legit lower level prospect. At that point you have to seriously consider taking the deal.

That would be a solid haul for O's.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #58 by ofahn » October 14th, 2011, 1:41 pm

The Giants need to upgrade at SS and CF but won't have the money to chase after Reyes. If I were them I would find out what the Orioles wanted for Jones AND Hardy. If I were the Orioles I would insist on Bumgarner, Brown, and Belt or Surkamp.

There's a deal to be made here.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #59 by Jordan Tuwiner » October 15th, 2011, 11:18 am

ofahn wrote:The Giants need to upgrade at SS and CF but won't have the money to chase after Reyes. If I were them I would find out what the Orioles wanted for Jones AND Hardy. If I were the Orioles I would insist on Bumgarner, Brown, and Belt or Surkamp.

There's a deal to be made here.

That's why they should have dealt Hardy last year. Now trade clause and his value is going to fade.
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Re: Would You Trade Adam Jones For …….?

PostPost #60 by ofahn » October 15th, 2011, 11:30 am

Jordan wrote:Now trade clause and his value is going to fade.


I'm not certain but I don't think he has a no trade clause. It was my understanding that there was a verbal agreement that he wouldn't be traded last July.
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