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2012 infield, how much change to expect

2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #1 by Rising O's » September 3rd, 2011, 9:32 am

It should be clear what Andy MacPhail was trying to do for 2012. Other than an injured Roberts the rest of the infield looked to be set; likely to the great dismay of we the fans.

Robert Andino will be offered arbitration, his utility and salary make him a no brainer. JJ Hardy was already signed for a 3 year extension. Mark Reynolds still has 1 year left. Chris Davis is new, injured, but has the reputation of being a solid defender with very good power potential. Ryan Adams looks to be doing enough to at least be considered for a ML roster spot. I don't see the Orioles and Angelos releasing Roberts so he remains in the mix, potentially as the final piece of the infield.

But Andy MacPhail will move on at season's end, and whatever his plan was, may be reworked by his replacement. Reynolds could be moved but how much value does he have. I believe his defense is better than he's shown at 3rd but could a move to 1st be in order? Davis could never even get a chance but his minor league career numbers indicate he should but may ultimately be a role player in 2012. Will the new GM realize that holding on to Roberts may set the team back again and decide move on? How this ultimately concludes may be the litmus test on just how much power the new guy will have.

After three years of 98, 96 and a projected 97 losses a new GM will be expected to work miracles. For the Orioles, with limited infield resources, it may end up being the outfield that brings in the pieces we need for a future run at contention.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #2 by j.q. higgins » September 4th, 2011, 8:13 am

if it's the outfield that's going to bring the o's to contention, new gm will REALLY have to be a miracle worker.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #3 by Rising O's » September 4th, 2011, 7:26 pm

Unfortunately that contention would not come until 2015 and only through the trade values of our outfielders. I think 3 months of 2011's Hardy in 2012 would give him some great value. Reynolds probably does not bring back anything more than we gave up to get him. Other than those two we really have nothing of value even in the high minors. :(

There's always hope a new GM blows this 97 losses average per year team up.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #4 by Jordan Tuwiner » September 5th, 2011, 8:15 pm

The Orioles just have a ton of below-average/average players but no stars. That's why they should not trade for Tommy Hunter and Chris Davis, rather the two high upside arms that were sent to San Diego for Mike Adams. You need a roster full of star players to compete in the AL East.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #5 by Rising O's » September 7th, 2011, 10:16 pm

O's have to be pretty happy with the returns on Hunter. Davis, not so much. I really don't get playing Davis at 3rd, especially when he has a torn labrum. Its like Showalter is grasping at straws.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #6 by Rising O's » September 7th, 2011, 10:44 pm

There was an article on MLB Trade Rumors discussing the future of Luke Scott. The article feels Scott's salary will remain the same, at 6.5 million for 2012 making him a non-tender candidate. I was going to create a new topic but this could affect what happens in the infield.

I feel the Orioles should use the 7 million on a starting pitcher (or a left fielder or even a 2nd baseman). I believe you can get similar production from a combination of Reimold and Davis for 1/7th the cost. I feel the Scott is another player the organization needs to drop in an effort to take a step a way from the last three years of 98, 96 and possibly 97 losses. Nothing personal, just time to move on.

Reynolds playing first even though he's not very good there, pushes Davis into a bench role at best. Signing Scott gives Davis no role at all. Plus it reduces the playing time of Reimold to almost nil as well. I just don't feel these are wise moves.

If the come to pass the Orioles will now be looking for a 3rd basemen, a 2nd baseman, and left fielder. Versus a 2nd baseman, part-time first baseman, and left fielder plus those pesky starting pitchers. It seems to me the Orioles would be adding more needs by going this route.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #7 by Jordan Tuwiner » September 8th, 2011, 3:07 pm

Rising O's wrote:There was an article on MLB Trade Rumors discussing the future of Luke Scott. The article feels Scott's salary will remain the same, at 6.5 million for 2012 making him a non-tender candidate. I was going to create a new topic but this could affect what happens in the infield.

I feel the Orioles should use the 7 million on a starting pitcher (or a left fielder or even a 2nd baseman). I believe you can get similar production from a combination of Reimold and Davis for 1/7th the cost. I feel the Scott is another player the organization needs to drop in an effort to take a step a way from the last three years of 98, 96 and possibly 97 losses. Nothing personal, just time to move on.

Reynolds playing first even though he's not very good there, pushes Davis into a bench role at best. Signing Scott gives Davis no role at all. Plus it reduces the playing time of Reimold to almost nil as well. I just don't feel these are wise moves.

If the come to pass the Orioles will now be looking for a 3rd basemen, a 2nd baseman, and left fielder. Versus a 2nd baseman, part-time first baseman, and left fielder plus those pesky starting pitchers. It seems to me the Orioles would be adding more needs by going this route.

All good points. Problem is, since they signed Vlad we were unable to figure out whether Reimold is a keeper. Based on his play as of late I think he is. He's patient, plays solid defense and has some pop. I'd be fine with him as the 4th OF or maybe even the starting LF for the next couple of years. At least until they find someone better.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #8 by ofahn » September 8th, 2011, 4:25 pm

Jordan wrote:All good points. Problem is, since they signed Vlad we were unable to figure out whether Reimold is a keeper. Based on his play as of late I think he is. He's patient, plays solid defense and has some pop. I'd be fine with him as the 4th OF or maybe even the starting LF for the next couple of years. At least until they find someone better.


I agree.

I would be willing to start next season with an OF of Markakis RF, Angle CF, and Reimold LF, with Hudson as a possible fourth OF. You will notice that I did not include Adam Jones. I think it would be best to use him in a trade to fill some holes with quality prospects.

I really like the defense and speed that Angle and Hudson bring to this team. I would also like to see L J Hoes spend the winter putting on about ten pounds of muscle and working on his defense in LF. I don't want to reopen the debate about where to play him again but I honestly think that he will end up in LF and can be an option for the 2013 season.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #9 by Rising O's » September 8th, 2011, 6:57 pm

When you've lost so many games over the last three years everyone is part of the problem. I've suggested elsewhere everything has to be reviewed and been blasted for it. Apparently even suggesting something like Adam Jones be moved from CF is blasphemy. He's the least of our problems I've heard. 97 loss average the last 3 years. :oops: If someone like Adam Jones' CF position can better be filled by someone else then he has to be asked to move, heck don't even ask.

Why not move Adam to right and trade Nick Markakis? Our new GM has some serious problems to fix and everything has to be considered. :idea: As I said, our infield problems may have to be solved through the outfield.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #10 by Shorebirdfan » September 8th, 2011, 9:29 pm

ofahn wrote:I agree.

I would be willing to start next season with an OF of Markakis RF, Angle CF, and Reimold LF, with Hudson as a possible fourth OF. You will notice that I did not include Adam Jones. I think it would be best to use him in a trade to fill some holes with quality prospects.



Only problem I have here is the lack of power. Put Reynolds at 1B and get a big power 3B and then I'm OK.

I have nothing against Angle, Hudson, Avery, Mummey, Bumbry, Ruettiger, etc, other than they are all cut from the same mold (generally). Stronger D, speed, decent eye at the plate, no power.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #11 by rjc3 » September 8th, 2011, 10:16 pm

Shorebirdfan wrote:
ofahn wrote:I agree.

I would be willing to start next season with an OF of Markakis RF, Angle CF, and Reimold LF, with Hudson as a possible fourth OF. You will notice that I did not include Adam Jones. I think it would be best to use him in a trade to fill some holes with quality prospects.



Only problem I have here is the lack of power. Put Reynolds at 1B and get a big power 3B and then I'm OK.

I have nothing against Angle, Hudson, Avery, Mummey, Bumbry, Ruettiger, etc, other than they are all cut from the same mold (generally). Stronger D, speed, decent eye at the plate, no power.

People have a problem with these types of players but Brett Gardner is similar and put up 6.2 WAR last year and should be right around that figure this year. I'd be fine with an O's version of Gardner.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #12 by OriolesRedskins28 » September 8th, 2011, 11:13 pm

rjc3 wrote:
Shorebirdfan wrote:
ofahn wrote:


Only problem I have here is the lack of power. Put Reynolds at 1B and get a big power 3B and then I'm OK.

I have nothing against Angle, Hudson, Avery, Mummey, Bumbry, Ruettiger, etc, other than they are all cut from the same mold (generally). Stronger D, speed, decent eye at the plate, no power.

People have a problem with these types of players but Brett Gardner is similar and put up 6.2 WAR last year and should be right around that figure this year. I'd be fine with an O's version of Gardner.




Although he was hurt for much of the year, Mummey has shown extra base pop, significantly more than the other outfielders mentioned. He has shown the potential to provide consistent 2Bs/3Bs with a decent number of HRs.

I also agree that the "Brett Gardner type" is undervalued. Gardner's WAR numbers are indeed impressive and he makes a dynamite leadoff man. I think Mummey can be that type of player, maybe with more pop but less patience. Not to mention that Mummey could stick in CF which would make him even more valuable. He and Townsend need to stay healthy!

I say keep Reynolds at 1B unless a better option presents itself, give Davis a shot at 3B, Hardy at SS, see if Roberts is healthy at 2B with andino and adams as utility players/insurance for Roberts(injury) and Davis(failure to hit). Maybe Mahoney and/or Hoes put themselves to take over 1B/2B by the end of the season or going into 2013.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #13 by Rising O's » September 9th, 2011, 7:16 am

Not much out there at 3rd for 2012. Aramis Ramirez is about it and he's unlikely to come here. Chris Davis has not shown himself to be a good 3rd baseman, worse then Reynolds. Josh Bell? Seems an unlikely solution. I think Reynolds is the penciled in guy for next year despite the experiment at 1st. Ideally the Orioles should trade for a blocked prospect at 1st.

2 years of headaches plus neck and back problems I don't think Roberts should even be in the conversation for starting in the infield. If he can play again I'd just try to keep him healthy. He would not be the typical DH but the Orioles need guys who can get on base too so...
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #14 by dan72 » September 30th, 2011, 10:28 am

Fielder at first, Reynolds at DH, so long to Luke Scott. Not sure where Davis fits in, maybe a trade piece. Of course getting Fielder is a long shot. I think we can afford him. I know Fielder doesn't fix the pitching issues but he is a legit clean up hitter which we have not had in a long time. Andino at 2b, hardy at ss and ???? at 3b. I dont feel comfortable with Davis or Bell over there.
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Re: 2012 infield, how much change to expect

PostPost #15 by BuckMagic » September 30th, 2011, 11:23 am

dan72 wrote:Fielder at first, Reynolds at DH, so long to Luke Scott. Not sure where Davis fits in, maybe a trade piece. Of course getting Fielder is a long shot. I think we can afford him. I know Fielder doesn't fix the pitching issues but he is a legit clean up hitter which we have not had in a long time. Andino at 2b, hardy at ss and ???? at 3b. I dont feel comfortable with Davis or Bell over there.

Reynolds was awful at third base next year but like you said who can play third?! that's why Reynolds will probably end up at 3rd again next year.

If they sign Fielder they should have Mark at 3rd, Davis at 1B, and Fielder as the DH.
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