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Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

PostPost #1 by Jordan Tuwiner » August 28th, 2011, 1:12 am

I haven't updated this since the beginning of the season, so here's my latest edition of the system depth chart and the first that includes signed 2011 draftees.

Please keep this in mind: This depth chart is based on prospect rankings and not how advanced a prospect is or at what level they play. A prospect's position on this chart is the position at which I feel they well ultimately end up at.

http://orioles-nation.com/2011/08/28/jo ... -chart-11/
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Re: Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

PostPost #2 by Jordan Tuwiner » August 28th, 2011, 1:23 am

Some reasoning behind some players' listed position:

Oliver Drake - Drake has improved quite a bit this season but I believe his fastball + slider combo works best out of the bullpen. His velocity would increase a bit as well. He's a bit too home run prone to be a starter IMO.

Ryan Berry - I've seen Berry on multiple occasions, including once this season in the GCL. His delivery puts a lot of pressure his shoulder and is too whippy for my liking. He'll have trouble staying healthy as a starter but could become a setup man as a reliever.

Brandon Erbe - I think we all knew that he'd end up as a reliever, and with his velocity down along with the reoccurring injuries, it's time he makes the switch for good.

Dan Klein - Pitchers that undergo two shoulder surgeries at any point in their career have made it or succeeded in the majors just 10% of the time. I simply am not comfortable with Klein as a starter at all and his injury bumps his prospect down for the moment. I hope I'm wrong.

Jonathan Schoop - Eventually will get too big for 2B.

I'd be happy to provide explanations for anything else. Feel free to fire away questions. Don should be putting one of these out soon.
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Re: Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

PostPost #3 by Shorebirdfan » August 28th, 2011, 7:40 am

I agree with your assessment of all 4 pitchers listed above and the reasoning for each. I'll try to comment by position with thoughts on differences in our assessment of players.

C - Biggest difference for me is Ohlman. Great improvement of handling the bat but not the glove. Given his frame I'd like to see some experimenting with him in other spots. 1B, LF. I'd pull him out and list Olivera 4th.

1B - I have not seen Aaron Baker live so I'm not sure if he should fit in the mix anywhere (4th)

2B - I would remove Kelly (nice scrappy player with improved stroke this season, but just don't see him cracking the bigs) and move Miclat into that spot. I don't feel Greg's arm is quite what we would want at SS and think he has transitioned well to 2B. Love his smarts on the base path but would still put LJ and Ryan ahead of him.

3B - In a year this has gone from a position that you could have left blank (for lack of real prospects) to maybe our deepest position in the field for real talent. Like to see them try Narron at SS.

SS - With my move of Miclat this becomes the putting all your eggs in one basket position. Guess if something happened to Machado they could move Schoop back here, but I don't like Givens or Florimon. This lack of depth in why I'd move Narron here.

OF - I'll put these together because I don't have a lot of comments here. Glad to see you included Henson. I think a lot of people even with in the organization under estimate his potential. I think the list of all twelve reveals a major weakness in the organization. Outside of Kipp, where is the power? I know our record shows we draft OF for speed time to shift that somewhat. RF you could have left blank. Not one of those guys will ever reach the bigs.

I'll add comments for pitchers later. Great job on this list.
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Re: Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

PostPost #4 by Shorebirdfan » August 28th, 2011, 9:20 am

OK on to the pitchers.

LHRP - Love seeing Tolliver at the top. Ash is as good a pitcher as he is a person. Not high on Martin. Seen flashes with him but they are few and far between. I think Bywater eventually slides over here. I'm higher on Gurka than you are.

LHSP - Have seen Coffey, Berry and Howard (as well as Bywater) this season. We are really thin here.

RHSP - The Bundy boys. Enough said. I do think Hobgood is another that should be looked at long term for RHRP. His frame seems to fit that role more and he has that snarl on th hill.

RHRP - Schrader, Henry, Klein and Berry (I have him ahead of Drake). This is a potential strength. One name missing and I know no one here is going to agree with me is Bernardo. Converted from C to RP just 2 months ago, after allowing hits to the first 3 people he ever faced he has been lights out. ERA under 1.00 and simply pounding the zone in the low 90's. I get he is 23 playing in the GCL but he gets a pass on age in my book given the position change. I thought they should have moved him here to the shore a month ago. I would probably have him around Tyler Wilson, but I feel he deserves a mention for successfully (to this point) making the switch.
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Re: Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

PostPost #5 by Jordan Tuwiner » August 28th, 2011, 11:22 am

Shorebirdfan wrote:I agree with your assessment of all 4 pitchers listed above and the reasoning for each. I'll try to comment by position with thoughts on differences in our assessment of players.

C - Biggest difference for me is Ohlman. Great improvement of handling the bat but not the glove. Given his frame I'd like to see some experimenting with him in other spots. 1B, LF. I'd pull him out and list Olivera 4th.

If I knew which position they were going to try him at I'd have him there. Other guys who are likely to move positions have more obvious destinations, but we don't know with Ohlman yet.

Shorebirdfan wrote:1B - I have not seen Aaron Baker live so I'm not sure if he should fit in the mix anywhere (4th)

That's a mistake on my part and I just added him above Mike Flacco as 4th on the 1B chart.

Shorebirdfan wrote:2B - I would remove Kelly (nice scrappy player with improved stroke this season, but just don't see him cracking the bigs) and move Miclat into that spot. I don't feel Greg's arm is quite what we would want at SS and think he has transitioned well to 2B. Love his smarts on the base path but would still put LJ and Ryan ahead of him.

Another mistake on my part. Had some of it copied over from the previous depth chart. I've moved Miclat to 2B and slotted him ahead of Ty Kelly.

Shorebirdfan wrote:3B - In a year this has gone from a position that you could have left blank (for lack of real prospects) to maybe our deepest position in the field for real talent. Like to see them try Narron at SS.

That was definitely something I liked seeing when doing this. I had to leave Veloz off the list completely.

Shorebirdfan wrote:SS - With my move of Miclat this becomes the putting all your eggs in one basket position. Guess if something happened to Machado they could move Schoop back here, but I don't like Givens or Florimon. This lack of depth in why I'd move Narron here.

I have not seen Narron this year bud last year in the GCL. Based off what I saw last year and the reports on his defense this year, I don't think he'd be able to play SS.

Shorebirdfan wrote:OF - I'll put these together because I don't have a lot of comments here. Glad to see you included Henson. I think a lot of people even with in the organization under estimate his potential. I think the list of all twelve reveals a major weakness in the organization. Outside of Kipp, where is the power? I know our record shows we draft OF for speed time to shift that somewhat. RF you could have left blank. Not one of those guys will ever reach the bigs.

That's a big part of the reason I wanted Coats in the organization. Also, didn't have a spot for Ruettiger because he'll stick in CF.
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Re: Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

PostPost #6 by Jordan Tuwiner » August 28th, 2011, 11:27 am

Shorebirdfan wrote:LHRP - Love seeing Tolliver at the top. Ash is as good a pitcher as he is a person. Not high on Martin. Seen flashes with him but they are few and far between. I think Bywater eventually slides over here. I'm higher on Gurka than you are.

I know they are trying him as a starter but if Martin moved to the bullpen he'd move quickly. Has the stuff and control was much better as a reliever.

Bywater is a strange case. I know what's behind his control problems right now and it's really unfortunate. If he returns to his college form, I feel he has what it takes to start.

Shorebirdfan wrote:RHRP - Schrader, Henry, Klein and Berry (I have him ahead of Drake). This is a potential strength. One name missing and I know no one here is going to agree with me is Bernardo. Converted from C to RP just 2 months ago, after allowing hits to the first 3 people he ever faced he has been lights out. ERA under 1.00 and simply pounding the zone in the low 90's. I get he is 23 playing in the GCL but he gets a pass on age in my book given the position change. I thought they should have moved him here to the shore a month ago. I would probably have him around Tyler Wilson, but I feel he deserves a mention for successfully (to this point) making the switch.

He is still learning the basics of pitching and working on repeating his delivery. Next year will be a better indicator as to his prospect status as a pitcher.
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Re: Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

PostPost #7 by Rising O's » August 29th, 2011, 1:30 am

Some obvious logjam problems in CF and 3B. Not sure how they will handle Avery and Mummey in AA. With Adams hitting well he should be on the ML roster so that clears the way for Miclat to move up and Hoes to actually play 2nd in AA. :roll:

If Schoop at 3rd is almost a certainty, any chance Narron could be moved to the outfield, particularly RF? I know why the O's want to try Delmonico at 3rd, but he's also a candidate for an organization lacking in outfield power. I think Esposito should be able to move through quickly (I hope, and also hope they don't do the slow advancement routine with him) and at least be a ML bench player.

That's about all I have to add. :|
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Re: Post-Signing Deadline Depth Chart 2011

PostPost #8 by Shorebirdfan » August 29th, 2011, 5:26 am

I would think Mummey will return to Frederick after missing most of the season.

Adams playing like he should stay and yes that should move Miclat to Norfolk next season.
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