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Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #16 by GeorgeD4 » September 12th, 2010, 6:58 am

Traveldawg69 wrote:Would I be crazy voting for Nick Markakis based on his numbers AND his leadership that he brought earlier this year?

I know his power is down this year, but he is quite frankly a leader by action. For what it's worth, my kids love NM too.

Enough for me....lol


His leadership earlier this year had the team on pace for one of the worst records of all-time.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #17 by GeorgeD4 » September 12th, 2010, 7:09 am

I sit corrected. Can't say he's above or below average. His numbers among MLB rightfielders are very average. Number 15 in OPS.
I have nothing against Markakis. I just don't think he's as good as some Orioles' fans think he is.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/bypos ... &sort=25ut

If you factor in stolen bases you could make the argument that Angel Pagan is having a better season than Markakis. Angel Pagan! If you polled 100 Orioles fans, 99 would just assume Markakis is far better than Pagan. He is also a strong defensive player. Granted, he played center until Beltran returned, but the point remains.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #18 by 2131andBeyond » September 13th, 2010, 1:59 am

GeorgeD4 wrote:I sit corrected. Can't say he's above or below average. His numbers among MLB rightfielders are very average. Number 15 in OPS.
I have nothing against Markakis. I just don't think he's as good as some Orioles' fans think he is.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/stats/bypos ... &sort=25ut

If you factor in stolen bases you could make the argument that Angel Pagan is having a better season than Markakis. Angel Pagan! If you polled 100 Orioles fans, 99 would just assume Markakis is far better than Pagan. He is also a strong defensive player. Granted, he played center until Beltran returned, but the point remains.


Interesting to see. Very interesting.

I knew the average was dropping. The RBI count is down. Everything is, really. Wonder why the average is down... He is being pitched to about the same in my opinion. And frankly, his batting stance has changed, which I'm not so sure why when he was having success hitting for average with how it was before.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #19 by 2131andBeyond » September 13th, 2010, 2:01 am

Traveldawg69 wrote:Would I be crazy voting for Nick Markakis based on his numbers AND his leadership that he brought earlier this year?

I know his power is down this year, but he is quite frankly a leader by action. For what it's worth, my kids love NM too.

Enough for me....lol


His leadership earlier in the year? That was him pushing the team to play better before he called for a trade, really. That's how I took it, at least. The dude is down and never happy on the field. Never smiles, and even at the O's autograph session, was keeping to his own, and when I thanked him, he barely even nodded his head. I see him as not one bit of a leader at this point, really.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #20 by allstar1579 » September 13th, 2010, 5:00 pm

2131andBeyond wrote:
Traveldawg69 wrote:Would I be crazy voting for Nick Markakis based on his numbers AND his leadership that he brought earlier this year?

I know his power is down this year, but he is quite frankly a leader by action. For what it's worth, my kids love NM too.

Enough for me....lol


His leadership earlier in the year? That was him pushing the team to play better before he called for a trade, really. That's how I took it, at least. The dude is down and never happy on the field. Never smiles, and even at the O's autograph session, was keeping to his own, and when I thanked him, he barely even nodded his head. I see him as not one bit of a leader at this point, really.


He's always been a quiet kid, and he always will be, that's just who he is. It was cause to notice when he got vocal earlier this year because he is sooo quiet, I think that's more why he did it. When HE speaks up, the owner will notice and listen. He's not going to be your rah-rah leader kinda guy like Luke Scott or Millar.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #21 by GeorgeD4 » September 13th, 2010, 5:17 pm

You can't deny that part of the reason the owner listens is because of Nick's Greek heritage.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #22 by allstar1579 » September 13th, 2010, 6:36 pm

GeorgeD4 wrote:You can't deny that part of the reason the owner listens is because of Nick's Greek heritage.


Oh no doubt, that's why I mentioned that the owner would take notice, I'm sure he has his personal number.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #23 by DougDE » September 13th, 2010, 10:23 pm

2131andBeyond wrote:
Traveldawg69 wrote:Would I be crazy voting for Nick Markakis based on his numbers AND his leadership that he brought earlier this year?

I know his power is down this year, but he is quite frankly a leader by action. For what it's worth, my kids love NM too.

Enough for me....lol


His leadership earlier in the year? That was him pushing the team to play better before he called for a trade, really. That's how I took it, at least. The dude is down and never happy on the field. Never smiles, and even at the O's autograph session, was keeping to his own, and when I thanked him, he barely even nodded his head. I see him as not one bit of a leader at this point, really.


Blatant case of putting words in another persons mouth. I dont believe he ever uttered one word about a trade. I also didnt realize smiling was a leadership trait
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #24 by 2131andBeyond » September 13th, 2010, 10:48 pm

DougDE wrote:
2131andBeyond wrote:
Traveldawg69 wrote:Would I be crazy voting for Nick Markakis based on his numbers AND his leadership that he brought earlier this year?

I know his power is down this year, but he is quite frankly a leader by action. For what it's worth, my kids love NM too.

Enough for me....lol


His leadership earlier in the year? That was him pushing the team to play better before he called for a trade, really. That's how I took it, at least. The dude is down and never happy on the field. Never smiles, and even at the O's autograph session, was keeping to his own, and when I thanked him, he barely even nodded his head. I see him as not one bit of a leader at this point, really.


Blatant case of putting words in another persons mouth. I dont believe he ever uttered one word about a trade. I also didnt realize smiling was a leadership trait



It might not be an outright leadership quality, but it is kind of implied so much that it doesn't need to be stated. I mean, what young Oriole will be motivated by a guy never smiling or laughing during the game, especially these ones where we win late? Saw him crack one on the walkoff tonight, but that's about it.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #25 by DougDE » September 14th, 2010, 1:02 am

Couldnt disagree more. The strongest leaders Ive ever heard of are military leaders and I dont think they're walkin around smilin and laughin it up much. Leadership is doing the right thing and limiting mistakes and playing hard. Not facial expressions. How is smiling an "implied" leadership trait. And back to the time he spoke with Angelos being a lead up to a trade demand, when it happened he said in a radio interview he did it because he saw some things not going right and he wanted to speak up because he wants to win with "this" team because he lives here and has started a family here. Doesnt sound like a guy looking to skip out to me
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #26 by allstar1579 » September 14th, 2010, 8:43 am

2131andBeyond wrote:It might not be an outright leadership quality, but it is kind of implied so much that it doesn't need to be stated. I mean, what young Oriole will be motivated by a guy never smiling or laughing during the game, especially these ones where we win late? Saw him crack one on the walkoff tonight, but that's about it.


BJ Surhoff says hi. One of the surliest, no-nonsense players in the Orioles history, also one of the best leaders ever.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #27 by LukeScottsShotgun » September 14th, 2010, 9:22 am

DougDE wrote:Couldnt disagree more. The strongest leaders Ive ever heard of are military leaders and I dont think they're walkin around smilin and laughin it up much. Leadership is doing the right thing and limiting mistakes and playing hard. Not facial expressions. How is smiling an "implied" leadership trait. And back to the time he spoke with Angelos being a lead up to a trade demand, when it happened he said in a radio interview he did it because he saw some things not going right and he wanted to speak up because he wants to win with "this" team because he lives here and has started a family here. Doesnt sound like a guy looking to skip out to me


Exactly. Markakis is not a Ray Lewis type leader who could probably motivate a zombie corpse to live again. He's the prototypical "lead by example" type. Eddie Murray was the same way. Never really smiled that much, but everybody knew he was the leader. At least Nick is not afraid to speak his mind when he needs to. He didn't pull a Miguel Tejada and demand a trade from out of nowhere. Nick is definitely not looking to skip out. Nick's one of the few guys who hustles no matter what. That doesn't sound like a guy who's looking to be traded to me.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #28 by allstar1579 » September 14th, 2010, 10:18 am

LukeScottsShotgun wrote:
DougDE wrote:Couldnt disagree more. The strongest leaders Ive ever heard of are military leaders and I dont think they're walkin around smilin and laughin it up much. Leadership is doing the right thing and limiting mistakes and playing hard. Not facial expressions. How is smiling an "implied" leadership trait. And back to the time he spoke with Angelos being a lead up to a trade demand, when it happened he said in a radio interview he did it because he saw some things not going right and he wanted to speak up because he wants to win with "this" team because he lives here and has started a family here. Doesnt sound like a guy looking to skip out to me


Exactly. Markakis is not a Ray Lewis type leader who could probably motivate a zombie corpse to live again. He's the prototypical "lead by example" type. Eddie Murray was the same way. Never really smiled that much, but everybody knew he was the leader. At least Nick is not afraid to speak his mind when he needs to. He didn't pull a Miguel Tejada and demand a trade from out of nowhere. Nick is definitely not looking to skip out. Nick's one of the few guys who hustles no matter what. That doesn't sound like a guy who's looking to be traded to me.


Another real good example.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #29 by LukeScottsShotgun » September 14th, 2010, 10:50 am

MVO is probably Guthrie. Could make an argument for Jones, Markakis, Scott, or Wigginton though. If we had Koji for a full season, he probably would have been the MVP.
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Re: Most Valuable Oriole - 2010

PostPost #30 by 2131andBeyond » September 14th, 2010, 1:55 pm

DougDE wrote:Couldnt disagree more. The strongest leaders Ive ever heard of are military leaders and I dont think they're walkin around smilin and laughin it up much. Leadership is doing the right thing and limiting mistakes and playing hard. Not facial expressions. How is smiling an "implied" leadership trait. And back to the time he spoke with Angelos being a lead up to a trade demand, when it happened he said in a radio interview he did it because he saw some things not going right and he wanted to speak up because he wants to win with "this" team because he lives here and has started a family here. Doesnt sound like a guy looking to skip out to me


I tend to think a baseball player is different in that he needs to be a clubhouse guy as well, meaning being upbeat and keeping the energy level high.

BUT, you all do prove a point in that there may be different types of leaders. While I was thinking more of an energy guy who goes around to give guys pats on the back and all, there is also the leader who sets by example. And in that way, he is a leader, in that whether his average is up or down, power numbers up or down, he goes out there every inning and fights. Could be down 8 runs and he still dives for balls, still has productive at bats.
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