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Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #1 by docjj » July 31st, 2011, 3:46 pm

I held out hopes for a .500 season at thebeginning of the year. We brought in some veteran pop to the lineup- Lee and Guererro, we had Showalter leading the charge, and we had a healthy Brian Roberts and JJ Hardy, and hope that a young rotation might show some maturation and development.


And it all completely blew up in our faces.


We couldn't even dump Lee and Guererro at the deadline for anyone useful.

Our pitching completely and totally disintegrated. Britton, Tillman, Matusz, and Bergesen are AWFUL.

The farm system is barren at the AA and AAA levels.

I see at least 5-6 more last place finishes in the years ahead.
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Re: Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #2 by Jordan Tuwiner » July 31st, 2011, 7:30 pm

docjj wrote:I held out hopes for a .500 season at thebeginning of the year. We brought in some veteran pop to the lineup- Lee and Guererro, we had Showalter leading the charge, and we had a healthy Brian Roberts and JJ Hardy, and hope that a young rotation might show some maturation and development.


And it all completely blew up in our faces.


We couldn't even dump Lee and Guererro at the deadline for anyone useful.

Our pitching completely and totally disintegrated. Britton, Tillman, Matusz, and Bergesen are AWFUL.

The farm system is barren at the AA and AAA levels.

I see at least 5-6 more last place finishes in the years ahead.

I think next year will be a better indicator. A healthy Matusz, more experienced Arrieta, and we should get some better signs of what's to come. Bergesen is terrible, but I still have hope for the rest of the young starters.
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Re: Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #3 by ofahn » July 31st, 2011, 8:23 pm

Bergesen is terrible


I just don't understand Brad Bergesen.

He seems to understand how to pitch and shows signs of brilliance and then looks like he's completely clueless and can't find the plate. I don't to watch enough of the games to evaluate whether he is inconsistent with his mechanics, so I can't suggest that as the problem.

It seems that he has either lost his feel for that devastating sinker that he used so effectively or he has lost confidence in it. Regardless, he doesn't have good enough stuff to get through a lineup more than once without it.
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Re: Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #4 by rjc3 » July 31st, 2011, 9:12 pm

ofahn wrote:
Bergesen is terrible


I just don't understand Brad Bergesen.

He seems to understand how to pitch and shows signs of brilliance and then looks like he's completely clueless and can't find the plate. I don't to watch enough of the games to evaluate whether he is inconsistent with his mechanics, so I can't suggest that as the problem.

It seems that he has either lost his feel for that devastating sinker that he used so effectively or he has lost confidence in it. Regardless, he doesn't have good enough stuff to get through a lineup more than once without it.

People need to remember that he was getting extremely lucky in 2009. Had a low BABIP.

I am not sure what happened to the sinker because his ground ball rate has gone down about 10%. Seems to me that his velocity is up a tick this year but the movement has gone down.
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Re: Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #5 by dan72 » August 1st, 2011, 10:33 pm

The opposing teams (all of them) have better talent at almost every position. The only guy we have that could start on opposing teams are Jones, and Hardy. Wieters is good defensively and Markakis is going to hit .300 but it doesn't matter if we lose 95-100 games. Our pitching is beyond horrible. Gregg and Gonzalez do not deserve to wear an Orioles jersey. I think Jim Johnson is the only solid reliever on the team now that Koji is gone and Simon is back to starting. The problems are many:
-No frontline starters
-no closer
-14 years of high first round draft picks have yielded Markakis and Wieters. woohoo
-lack of a true #4 hitter. This has been a problem for years
-very little talent in the minors and even it is at the lowest levels...years away.

The common thread of all good teams is good pitching. When the Orioles were successful (65-85) we had pitching. We have not had a real #1 starter since we let Mussina go. Thats sad. The only way to get better quick is to spend big. We all know thats not going to happen. So get used to the cellar because thats where my beloved Orioles belong. The reason the Rays are able to win is because they have a steady stream of talent coming out of their system.
Go O's.
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Re: Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #6 by Jordan Tuwiner » August 3rd, 2011, 7:30 pm

The problem is the O's need everything to go right in order to succeed. The Yankees can have prospects and free agents bust and everything will still turn out fine. The Orioles, however, need every prospect to hit (which they don't) and need every FA signing to work out well (they don't). That's probably the biggest issue.
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Re: Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #7 by dan72 » August 14th, 2011, 11:12 pm

Its all about pitching. Our rotation is learning on the job. Matusz was hurt and rushed to the show as was Britton. I think Arietta shows the most promise at this point. He still needs to cut down on walks. Gonzalez and Gregg (at $10 million+ combined) have been a huge disapointment to say the least. Simon has done ok, but I think he should be a back end of the bull pen guy. Even Jim Johnson has tsruggled. Guthrie despite some quality starts is not going to get many wins facing the other teams #1 starter.
When the O's were good (1965-1985) we had pitching. We have not had a legit #1 starter since Mussina. Despite 14 years of top draft picks we have very little major league talent to show for it. I hope Matusz comes back next year w/ a chip on his shoulder. He has great stuff. Same for Britton. The chances of all the young pitching clicking at once is slim. We need to buy some arms. As painful as it is, thats the solution......
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Re: Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #8 by ofahn » August 15th, 2011, 9:11 am

We need to buy some arms.


OK, accepting what you say is true, please tell me what "free" agents will want to come here and/or which pitchers can we trade for that won't empty the farm system?

I wish there was a simple solution but the reality is that we are going to have to develop our own talent.
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Re: Most Disappointing Season Ever. Period.

PostPost #9 by dan72 » August 15th, 2011, 10:59 pm

I can't speak for which free agents will come here. My thoughts on that are that they would all come here if we paid them. In 96/97 our rotation consisted of Mussina, Erickson, Jimmy Key, Scott Kamieniecki and a revolving door for the 5 spot. Out of the pen we had Orosco, Benitez, Rhodes, Randy Meyers. A good mix of youth and veterans, talent from within and from free agency/ trades. What would that rotation cost in todays money??? The answer is way more than we are willing to spend. A young Mussina alone would be a 5year/$100 million type deal. Tampa Bay can contend without buying arms because they scout and develop well. We don't. So the way I see it is we can buy the arms or we can continue to wish and hope that our young pitching all clicks at the same time.

There is a nice list of veterans available this off season that would compliment our struggling youth:
Maine, Buehrle, Duke, Francis, Harden, E. Jackson, Kazmir, oswalt, O. Perez, cj Wilson. Papelbon, broxton, capps, zumaya, prior, Madson.
kinda got away from the topic, yes this probably is the worst season ever in my opinion. I had hope that we would improve on last years record.
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