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Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #1 by docjj » July 1st, 2011, 10:18 am

Wow. We're unbelievably bad. This team can't hit or pitch. Sure, there are exceptions. Hardy is great (when healthy). Adam Jones is good enough. I'll take Reynolds' homers, despite the low average and strikeouts. Johnson and Uehara are great relievers.

That's about it.


Wieters somehow completely forgot how to hit. (A shining example of the Orioles' "reverse Midas touch"- whenever they touch something Gold, they turn it to junk.) The latest "Reverse Midas" Oriole is Brian Matusz who forgot how to pitch. Another Reverse Midas Oriole is Derek Lee and his .239 average and 6 HR, and another is Vlad Guerrero.

Markakis got his average up, but the power has vanished. Roberts is old and frail.

Then there's the farm. We have Norfolk and it's squad of AAAA guys like Snyder and Bell- too good for Double A, and too bad for anything beyond. We have guys who can't stay healthy (Mahoney). We have the overhyped (Florimon), the never-was's (Rowell). Heck, even our top prospect is hitting .140 at A ball.

Is there some way we can just disband the organization and ask MLB to start over as an expansion team? Just release everyone. Acquire guys who are unprotected on 40 man rosters of the other teams, secure the first pick in the draft for a couple of years, and just start completely over....
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #2 by JustinUtah » July 1st, 2011, 1:11 pm

I am down in the dumps on this team as well. My thoughts are most teams have gotten lucky with their trades and prospects. I for a couple of years now have been waiting on teams like the Marlins, Athletics, Blue Jays, and now the Royals to win. Much like the Rays. The difference being the Rays actually have found the nuggets (Buck terms). I have noticed that most teams win with older players not past prime players or prospects. Players that know how to play the game. My hopes are not for a bank breaking deal from Fielder. But a handfull of deals for players like CJ Wilson, Edwin Jackson, Jason Marquis, Casey Katchman and a few others that are in the 28-32 range. Also why not trade Machado, Matusz, Tillman, Hobgood, Schoop, and Avery for one or two quality ball players. Players who have that it factor. Buck can win with players who know how to play the game the right way.
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #3 by A_K » July 1st, 2011, 2:09 pm

With MacPhail's contract coming to an end, and little reason to believe the team is closer to contention than it was 4 years ago, I have to say I'm wondering if it isn't time to start the process over again as well.

Markakis isn't going anywhere, because no one will trade for his contract given his current production.

Virtually everyone else should be available for a trade.

Hardy and Guthrie are the two pieces that could fetch considerable returns. Given their contract situation, they virtually need to be moved. No one would consider taking Lee, Roberts or Vlad off our hands, so we're stuck there. Scott probably still has some trade value, though a great deal less than at this time a year ago. Still, we should take whatever we can get for him. Considering the price we paid for Reynolds 6 months ago, I can say I think he's worth more to us as a player than a trade chip.

That basically leaves us with Reynolds, Jones, Markakis and Wieters as the everyday players that are worth keeping or that can't be moved and are under contract for the next few years. Pitching remains in shambles, with Matusz, Tillman and Arrieta now parts of the rotation, but no longer carrying the sky-high upside we had imagined for them back when they were the big 3. Britton is the best on the staff. I guess we can run Bergeson out there for a little while. Whatever. Someone needs to start. Might as well trade Uehara for whatever you can get. Luckily Gonzalez is gone after this year. Hopefully next year's pen will just be a bunch of farm hands, along with Johnson and Gregg. Maybe something like Viola, Egan, Berken, Diaz, Patton, Johnson and Gregg.

But yeah, it's clear this team is never going to make the playoffs. If you're following the Orioles because you think it might pay off one day with a playoff appearance-- let alone a World Series championship-- you're doing it wrong. You need to look at being an Orioles fan the way a grandmother looks at knitting. You don't expect anything out of it. You just do it because you need to pass the time somehow. Embrace the sucktitude. It isn't going anywhere, obviously.
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #4 by DougDE » July 1st, 2011, 2:35 pm

If ya cant beat em....laugh at yourself I guess. The team is poop but I got a good kick out of reading these.
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #5 by ofahn » July 1st, 2011, 3:21 pm

OK, now take a DEEP breath and step back from the ledge.

There is no question that the pitching has taken a step back this year. There have been subtle comments since the second week of Spring Training that Mark Connors has been "tinkering" with the pitchers' mechanics. Gregg, Matusz, Bergesen, and Gonzales have all indicated that it has contributed to their problems this year. Matusz and Bergesen both pitched as well as they had in their careers during the last two months of 2010 so you have to wonder why anyone would want to fix what wasn't broken. No one on the club has said so but you have to wonder if that had anything to do with Connor's departure.

IF this team were getting the SAME performances from their starting pitching this year as the end of last year we would be at least five games over .500? Would that record change your opinion as to how to move forward?

IMO this team needs to ADD young talent, not trade it away. If I had any legitimate complaints it would be the inadequate resources the team is putting into scouting and player acquisition and development. Making substantial investments there will require time to show results but will give us a chance to compete with the big boys.
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #6 by DougDE » July 2nd, 2011, 3:02 am

ofahn wrote:IF this team were getting the SAME performances from their starting pitching this year as the end of last year we would be at least five games over .500? Would that record change your opinion as to how to move forward?

Ifs, ands, and buts,.... We're not getting the starting pitching and we're not 5 games over, we're 9 under in losing year #14. Dont really see your point
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #7 by ofahn » July 2nd, 2011, 9:30 am

The point is....DON'T panic if the problem can be fixed.

It appears that adjustments were made to our young pitchers that were ill advised and unwarranted. Once they're allowed to get back to what was working for them I think you'll see the difference.

This is not complicated:

FIND the problem

WORK the problem

FIX the problem
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #8 by Rising O's » July 2nd, 2011, 9:47 am

The dream of getting to 500 is turning into the usual nightmare. I felt that priority #1 for the Orioles was to find a lead-off type hitter whereas most others talked cleanup. It seems most are still stuck on cleanup even with Jones hitting pretty well, and Wieters looking like the ideal breakout candidate for 2012. The target should be Jose Reyes, or a trade to find someone who hit #1, either in LF, SS or 2nd.

The top 3 of the pitching staff are set in no particular order with Matusz, Britton and Arrieta, at this point there is no real reason to worry about them. So what can the Orioles blow up?

Guthrie is a no brainer trade in my opinion but the Orioles are usually too conservative and may be afraid they need him next year. Hardy is more difficult but ultimately it has to be done. You need steady defense in the middle and his bat is back from a few years ago, Its tough to let him go but he is going to get a decent offer in free agency and the Orioles again like to play conservative. Markakis would go but what happened to the 25 HR, 15 SB, great range and defensive outfielder? 12.5 million next year and climbing fast, time to start showing you are doing more than milking it. Uehara okay but since he is not a closer how much of a return should we expect? Adam Jones would bring a great return but moving him leaves a big void offensively though I think Pie would cover in the field. He would only be moved if MacPhail leaves and a new GM decides to start over.

I think Guthrie and Hardy should be moved but we need to get near ready or ready ML talent so the guys we do have now get some help before the next wave of prospects is ready by 2013-14 and they commit themselves to leaving Baltimore for a winning franchise.
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #9 by Shorebirdfan » July 2nd, 2011, 10:52 am

JustinUtah wrote:. Also why not trade Machado, Matusz, Tillman, Hobgood, Schoop, and Avery for one or two quality ball players. Players who have that it factor. Buck can win with players who know how to play the game the right way.


Sure. Why not throw in Wieters and Britton while you're at it. That would really fix things.
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #10 by thezeroes » July 3rd, 2011, 1:05 pm

Just my two cents
A better pitch in a game here, a hit with RISP there and this 9/10 games under would be reversed.

Deadwood of Gonzo,Vlad and injuries to Scott, Roberts take a toll on this club more then the $$$ teams. Able bodied replacements in an often injured minor league system also add to the parent clubs inablity to overcome certin shortfalls from key players. This total package of Orioles from A Ball to the Major League level is not that far away from being in contenetion. Injuries happen to all teams and with a weak/injured farm system those ML injuries are hard to overcome. Any club that stays the healthiest can contend and sadly the Orioles can not stay healthy.
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #11 by ofahn » July 3rd, 2011, 10:09 pm

thezeroes,

I would agree with your POV but add the caveat that a better stocked farm system would have made the landing softer.

I don't know if it will take a change in ownership, GM, or both to get this franchise to understand that winning BEGINS and CONTINUES with a well stocked farm system.
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #12 by DougDE » July 6th, 2011, 1:40 am

Well I'm tapping out from paying attention and watching on a day to day basis for the year. I'm not spending 3 hrs a day, 6 days a week of my life on this crap. I'll continue to monitor this site, pay attention to organizational stuff like trades and draft pick signings, etc., but the team on the field is as disappointing as ever, maybe more so. I'm tired of watching nonprospect AAA pitchers, a toast Vladdy continue to get the cleanup spot, until a day ago Luke continue to get to play the field of Reimold or Pie,etc. I mean come on Buck, you're seriously still plugging Vladdy in the 4 spot and feeling like that gives you the best chance to win???
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #13 by Don » July 6th, 2011, 10:34 am

Doug....it does not make you less of a fan to not watch 162 games a season or attend 4-5 dozen games a year. Things are rough, but it could always be worse. These guys on the field are still giving 100% effort, but sometimes it is still not enough.

I lose it when someone loafs and that is when I start to scream at the hills. I hope to never see it from this bunch...
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Re: Time to start over, scrap the whole darned thing

PostPost #14 by DougDE » July 6th, 2011, 10:44 pm

I didnt say it makes anyone less of a fan, Im sayin this just isnt entertaining. And it really couldnt be much worse. Losing for 14 straight years puts you in a special tier of bad
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