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Time to Question approach?

Time to Question approach?

PostPost #1 by Don » June 22nd, 2011, 10:09 am

I think the topic can be properly defended from both sides of the issue, but I know my thoughts are not shared with a number of organization in baseball.

Has the industry gone soft when dealing with how to properly handel baseball pitchers?

The Orioles have not been spared the injury bug when it comes to pitchers, but a number of key major and minor league players deal with dead arms, slap tears, frayed labrum, strained ligaments, etc... I wonder if it is due to the lack of preperation for the daily grind that pitchers take every season.

I am a huge proponent of long tossing at lenghts of up to 300 ft or more. I want pitchers to box, work with tubes, weight train, rock climb, and any other practice that can place stress on the body that utilize muscles, tendons, and ligaments similar to pitching. Guys need to really tax themselves to meet the demand of being a pitcher. I am really starting to wonder if the training approaches are partial to blame with the rash of injuries taking place in a number of organizations.

Each pitcher is different and you can safely make an argument against the things I suggest, but this approach is not working efficiently if every season another top arm faces serious issues in the Orioles orgnaization. It might not be the time and place to change; they should at least be open to some of the ideas to think outside the box while conditioning the pitchers to meet the demands baseball places on thier arms.
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Re: Time to Question approach?

PostPost #2 by A_K » June 22nd, 2011, 1:46 pm

My question is, is there really a rash of injuries in a number of organizations? I'm skeptical that there's a real increase, and not just an anecdotal observation that there are a lot of injuries, which has probably always been the case. Before discussing whether the approach organizations have taken in recent years has led to an increase in injuries, we first need to establish-- objectively-- that there has in fact been an increase in injuries.

And if there is in fact an increase in injuries, we'd need to separate a number of possible explanatory factors from one another before establishing causation from the training regimens of multiple organizations. Maybe guys are just throwing harder than they used to.
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Re: Time to Question approach?

PostPost #3 by Don » June 22nd, 2011, 2:53 pm

Fair enough, pigeon hole this to the Orioles organization alone.

This season: Jake Arrieta, Alfredo Simon, Dan Klein, Brandon Erbe

Last season: Matt Hobgood, Jim Johnson, Luis Lebron, Ashur Tolliver, Jake Cowan

Year before that one: Bobby Bundy, Alfredo Simon, Brandon Erbe, Spoone

These are right off the top of my head and there are so many more with lapses of tired arms, decreased velocity, etc... that could be added. Now there are a lot of things to suggest that pre-dated items were a time bomb waiting to happen, but a lot of guys have also seen a decrease in velocity. It is rather telling that "dead arm's" go into rehab and come out of the gate springing back to numbers they showed years prior.

A good example is Bobby Bundy. He went back to Oklahoma and started to work out in the fashion that his father set forth as a child. It was back to basic conditioning to build him up. He went to the max and you see the fruits of his labor.

The Orioles do not discourage some of the tactics I suggest, but they are not open in arms for extream long tossing or bringing in new thought to conditioning when pitchers are concerned. I do not know the exact pinpoint issue, but something is required to fix these problems.
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Re: Time to Question approach?

PostPost #4 by Shorebirdfan » June 22nd, 2011, 4:09 pm

Add to last year - Randy Henry, Jesse Beale
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Re: Time to Question approach?

PostPost #5 by Rising O's » June 29th, 2011, 10:20 am

Coffey, Berry...

I believe some of Jordan's frustration is due to this issue and came to a head with Hobgood.
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Re: Time to Question approach?

PostPost #6 by Don » June 29th, 2011, 10:52 am

I have ties with other organization, but everyone talks. These are just some of the things I hear. Could be 100% truth, or a shade of grey in between. But I see other organization and players that take very extream paths to conditioning and they are holding up. So many of the youth are logging impressive numbers and the arm is holding strong. Texas is turning out power arms hand over fist and they are lead by the strongest pitcher I have had the pleasure to be around, in Nolan Ryan. Ryan was a work horse that may not have lifted weights, but he did so many things around the ranch to stay in shape, etc... Their system has an out of the box approach compared to other teams and you can see the progress with their young arms.

There is not one person to blame and it is an industry wide topic on the fence. I just think the guys could be pushed a bit harder. Sweat in the off-season to make your season a piece of cake is something a good friend told me years ago, and should hold more weight today than it did 20 years ago.
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Re: Time to Question approach?

PostPost #7 by Shorebirdfan » June 29th, 2011, 8:44 pm

Don wrote:I have ties with other organization, but everyone talks. These are just some of the things I hear. Could be 100% truth, or a shade of grey in between. But I see other organization and players that take very extream paths to conditioning and they are holding up. So many of the youth are logging impressive numbers and the arm is holding strong. Texas is turning out power arms hand over fist and they are lead by the strongest pitcher I have had the pleasure to be around, in Nolan Ryan. Ryan was a work horse that may not have lifted weights, but he did so many things around the ranch to stay in shape, etc... Their system has an out of the box approach compared to other teams and you can see the progress with their young arms.

There is not one person to blame and it is an industry wide topic on the fence. I just think the guys could be pushed a bit harder. Sweat in the off-season to make your season a piece of cake is something a good friend told me years ago, and should hold more weight today than it did 20 years ago.


I agree completely with your premise. I feel pitchers are not challenged. I grew up in the 70's watching Seaver, Carlton and Gibson (I was an NL fan back then) and long for those days again. That being said, my largest criticism of my local affiliates manager is that he simply cannot manage a staff and daily leaves pitchers in too long. So where is the balance? It is obvious today's pitchers are not able to go for the long haul. Is the training you mention the answer or is there more too it than that? I certainly don't have the answer, but in light of watching a pitcher the caliber of Cliff Lee and his recent performance, it is obviously still possible. I would certainly like to see our team step back and say "Hey what we are doing isn't working so lets try something else."
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