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Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #16 by ofahn » February 28th, 2014, 1:38 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:All a fan can really ask of ownership
1-Learn from your mistakes
2-Have a clear long term plan
3-When in doubt, use wisdom

... AND hire the BEST baseball management you can find and then get the hell out of their way.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #17 by ofahn » March 4th, 2014, 8:34 pm

osforlife wrote:1. Do you have inside information in Baltimore's management or something?

There have been thousands of words written and published about this. Syd Thrift didn't say much when he left and neither did Mike Flanagan; but Gillick, Wren, and Jim Duquette sure did. There are dozens - maybe more than a hundred - of published reports on the subject.

osforlife wrote:How do you know Frank Wren was denied the budget to hire scouts?

Published reports.

osforlife wrote:How do you know the scouting reports were incomplete?

Published reports about the lack of scouting assets that resulted in uninformed choices.

osforlife wrote:How do you know the front office was instructed to go after aging free agents?

Published reports.

osforlife wrote:Were you there when he said it? Maybe baseball operations wanted to add veteran talent.

They had to because there was nothing coming from the farm system. Because the Orioles organization was a train wreck at that point quality players didn't want to come here. There are many published reports documenting this.

osforlife wrote:How do you know no money was being put into the player development system?

Published reports.

osforlife wrote:Do you have the financial spreadsheets?

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compe ... e-orioles/

osforlife wrote:How do you know Macphail was instructed to sign Guerrero?

Published reports.

osforlife wrote:I think you place way too much value on a manager. Managers don't run, field, hit, or pitch. They put the nine best players on the field, which a middle school'r could do, and sub in relief pitchers.

The 2010 team under Dave Trembley was 32 - 73 and Buck was 34 - 23 for the 57 games he managed with the same players. I think it's fair to say the manager made the difference.

osforlife wrote:Any person with a stat book can put in the pitchers with the best match-up.

That may be, but Dave Trembley couldn't to save his life. At the end of the 2009 season Andy MacPhail publicly stated what Trembley had to do to keep his job and learning how to manage his bullpen was one of them.

osforlife wrote:I wasn't alive during the 1998 season, but I highly doubt a single manager was worth 19 wins.

Buck Showalter, 2010.

osforlife wrote:Do you think maybe, just maybe, the team regressed because the pitching ERA went from 3.91 to 4.74?

Yes, the ERA went up, but as you have pointed out so did our runs scored. The 2012 team was a better offensive team because they were better at scoring the important run when the team needed it. The 2013 team was so busy trying to see how far they could hit the ball that they too often left a runner on third with less than two outs.

osforlife wrote:3. It's easy to look at hindsight and say the Brian Roberts extension was a bad investment. At the time of the extension, Brian Roberts was stealing bases, walking, hitting .290, and playing good defense. Natural regression was expected, but he had he stayed healthy, he would have been worth his contract. You wouldn't believe Baltimore should have traded Roberts at that point if he stayed healthy.

Yes I would have because he was a luxury on a bad team with an empty farm system.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #18 by ofahn » March 4th, 2014, 8:37 pm

thezeroes wrote:Not picking any sides in this one but here is a little insight in Peter Angelos done by sports business daily. Like him or not I do believe he was a better choice as an owner than the Jeffrey Loria.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Jour ... gelos.aspx

I thought this was an honest assessment of Angelos' faults as an owner.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #19 by thezeroes » March 5th, 2014, 10:37 am

ofahn wrote:I thought this was an honest assessment of Angelos' faults as an owner.


I also took away from the article that Peter Angelos has a hard time "Trusting" anyone but has taken to believing that both Dan Duquette and Buck Showalter may actually know more about baseball than does he and his sons. I also take away from the article that he had a "Trusting Relationship" with Andy McPhail and that he asked about the new team of Duquette/Showalter and received an endorsement from McPhail that these two could/would be the best management team for him.

I also think that Dan Duquette has the same type of attitude towards signing players from out of the organization that are unknowns. Research those players both as health and demeanor and see if they fit what you are trying to accomplish without upsetting the apple cart. I also think that Dan and Buck submit to Peter Angelos a budget that they would like to have and he has to date authorized the expenditures within this budget.

These may be correct assertions or I could be way off base but since Dan Duquette and Buck Showalter have come aboard and actually received extensions on contracts the team seems to be in better hands. I have not seen the "Heavy Handiness" of Peter Angelos so far these past two off seasons.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #20 by osforlife » March 5th, 2014, 7:04 pm

1. I would like to see some of these "published reports".
2. That link you showed me only shows the major league player's salaries.????
3. "Do you think maybe, just maybe, the team regressed because the pitching ERA went from 3.91 to 4.74?" This comment was referring to the 1997/1998 teams.
4. BTW, the 2013 team was 10th in sac flies. The Orioles were good at scoring runs and manufacturing runs, whatever that truly means.
5. The 2010 team's pitching staff's ERA went from 5.60 in July to 3.38 in August. That's why the team started winning more games. And that's the only FACT that you can draw from the turn around of that season.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #21 by ofahn » March 6th, 2014, 10:56 am

thezeroes wrote:I also took away from the article that Peter Angelos has a hard time "Trusting" anyone but has taken to believing that both Dan Duquette and Buck Showalter may actually know more about baseball than does he and his sons.

...

These may be correct assertions or I could be way off base but since Dan Duquette and Buck Showalter have come aboard and actually received extensions on contracts the team seems to be in better hands. I have not seen the "Heavy Handiness" of Peter Angelos so far these past two off seasons.

DD and Buck are the first management team since Pat Gillick and Davey Johnson that have had any sustained success. Perhaps, after losing fifteen years and leaving a TON of money on the table that a successful franchise would have generated he has finally accepted Andrew Carnagie's philosophy:

Here lies one who knew how to get around him men who were cleverer than himself


IMO the OTHER reason they were extended was that they have been publicly supportive of Angelos despite any private opinions they might have. That is a dramatic contrast to Gillick and Johnson who made no secret of their contempt for Angelos as a naive meddler.

thezeroes wrote:I also take away from the article that he had a "Trusting Relationship" with Andy McPhail and that he asked about the new team of Duquette/Showalter and received an endorsement from McPhail that these two could/would be the best management team for him.

If Angelos truly trusted MacPhail then IMO that really calls into question MacPhail's understanding of how to build a winner. When AM was hired even he openly admitted that our farm system was a barren train wreck yet he increased the draft budget by less than 25% and spent almost nothing on the International draft. WHY didn't MacPhail use that trust to convince Angelos to invest in the one proven method that would allow the team to improve without spending money they didn't have on "free" agents that view this team as a last resort.

The team is still paying for that folly.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #22 by ofahn » March 6th, 2014, 11:08 am

osforlife wrote:I would like to see some of these "published reports".

Unfortunately, most websites don't archive for more than a few years; however, the Sun and ESPN might. Besides those two I also based my opinions on the USA Today, Sporting News, and Sports Illustrated articles.

osforlife wrote:That link you showed me only shows the major league player's salaries.????

A little research shows the reduction in payroll for the team placed on the field; however, VERY little of that money went into player development. When you take into account the numbers and the published accounts the math works.

osforlife wrote:BTW, the 2013 team was 10th in sac flies. The Orioles were good at scoring runs and manufacturing runs, whatever that truly means.

... and IF we were 3rd or 4th we MIGHT have made the playoffs.

Because we couldn't match the better teams in pitching we needed to be better than them in other areas. We were in defense, but not enough in the ability to manufacture runs. IMO a winning team is one that can consistently bring home a runner from third with less than two out BY ANY MEANS AVAILABLE. Once that run goes on the board it can't come off.

osforlife wrote:The 2010 team's pitching staff's ERA went from 5.60 in July to 3.38 in August. That's why the team started winning more games. And that's the only FACT that you can draw from the turn around of that season.

We agree on the numbers; but, apparently, we disagree on the cause. Fair enough.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #23 by Old Sneakers » March 6th, 2014, 6:05 pm

Anyone know when Jimenez makes his spring debut? I know he was signed late, but he did get a fat contract. We have already seen Tillman twice.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #24 by AlexConway » March 6th, 2014, 6:12 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:Anyone know when Jimenez makes his spring debut? I know he was signed late, but he did get a fat contract. We have already seen Tillman twice.


It was supposed to be tomorrow. Might be later because of the rain delay today.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #25 by ofahn » March 6th, 2014, 6:25 pm

Ubaldo Jimenez is still scheduled to make his debut on Friday against the Phillies at Ed Smith Stadium. No word on the Orioles' plans for Gonzalez.

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roc ... -note.html
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #26 by thezeroes » March 6th, 2014, 9:38 pm

osforlife wrote: WHY didn't MacPhail use that trust to convince Angelos to invest in the one proven method that would allow the team to improve without spending money they didn't have on "free" agents that view this team as a last resort.


As broken as this entire organization was I thought McPhail did a pretty good job of shoring up some of the problems that were most easily done in a short amount of time. He did draft and sign a little better than did his predecessors. He did get all of the MiLB teams together within hours of OPACY instead of having them in another time zone. He did play hardball with the previous spring training site and got the club to Sarasota and into a newly refurbished facility that is one of the best in the business.

Unlike some, I thought he did a good job. This system, the Orioles, was destroyed over a fifteen year period. It started before Angelos bought the team. It was not going to get fixed in two or three years. Fans were codified by some of the signings but I do believe McPhail had a long range plan laid before Angelos and the Peter actually allowed it to proceed. Until Andy writes his memoirs we will probably never know.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #27 by ofahn » March 11th, 2014, 1:43 pm

thezeroes wrote:got the club to Sarasota and into a newly refurbished facility that is one of the best in the business

He WAS GM during this process, but I saw that evolution as more of revenue enhancement than as player development enhancer. NO question that the complex provides MUCH better training facilities than Ft. Lauderdale; but then; so do most max security prisons.

Sarasota NEEDS the draw of a northern ML team to support its winter tourist economy. When the Reds left the city HAD to find a replacement. Both sides made out in this transaction.

As I have said before my complaint was that he basically wasted a golden opportunity to rebuild our farm system during the 2008 through 2011 drafts using just 25M of the 70M or so he sliced from the ML payroll; not to mention a very modest investment in the International market. IF we would have added about 20 above slot draft signings during that period, and ONLY SEVEN of them developed into A or B level prospects, just imagine what our farm system would look like now. If this was part of a long term plan IMO it wasn't much of a plan.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #28 by Old Sneakers » April 7th, 2014, 5:41 pm

Well, we are two starts in and Jimenez has a staggering 8 walks in 10.2 innings.


He better figure out how to put the ball in the strike zone already.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #29 by Tucker Blair » April 7th, 2014, 7:05 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:Well, we are two starts in and Jimenez has a staggering 8 walks in 10.2 innings.


He better figure out how to put the ball in the strike zone already.


Not a good start, but I wouldn't get too worried just yet. He's really not showing me anything different than what he has done in the past. Just looks exemplified being in the first two starts. Hopefully he can settle down a bit now.
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Re: Analyzing Ubaldo Jimenez

PostPost #30 by dan72 » April 13th, 2014, 4:01 pm

After 3 starts he is 0-3. Same old issues. Does challenge hitters. Tries to nibble and get batters to chase. Pitch count to high. Hes going to have to pitch to his defense if he wants to have success. Gotta get strike one and then go from there.
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