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Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #16 by ofahn » February 17th, 2014, 10:20 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:"Jimenez capped his solid 2013 season, where he went 13-9 with a 3.30 ERA for Cleveland, with an exceptional finish. In 13 starts after the All-Star Game, he went 6-5 with a 1.82 ERA and 100 strikeouts over 84 innings. He pitched to an ERA of 1.09 in six September starts, which included six shutout innings against the Orioles on Sept. 3."

None of that changes this
Just one year prior, however, Jimenez netted just a 5.40 ERA for Cleveland. He has never managed to limit walks, allowing 4.1 free passes per nine over his career. And Jimenez's stellar early-career ground-ball induction skills have waned of late. Last year, he checked in with a 43.5% ground ball rate, which fell below league average.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/02/o ... menez.html
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #17 by Seafordeagles » February 18th, 2014, 9:04 am

You're great at pointing out failures and not recognizing improvements. I tried to show you something good Jimenez had done and you point out the flaws. Although it doesn't surprise me.

Like I said in another post. I WAS not a fan of Jimenez, but I AM NOW.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #18 by Rising O's » February 18th, 2014, 8:39 pm

Jimenez has performed to a FIP of 3.75 including the 2012 season over the last 6 years. If the changes made during the 2nd half of 2013 continue to prove successful, the Orioles have a steal. Even so, the money for this fwar makes the contract a bargain.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #19 by mikezpen » February 20th, 2014, 5:58 am

Seafordeagles wrote:
Are we a better team with Jimenez?


You pose a good question. First, I think Jimenez is a far better choice than Bronson Arroyo. But far more importantly, this is huge gamble that could determine the franchise's direction for the near future. If he fails, ownership could refuse to take any more chances on expensive free agents. In such case, the Orioles w/b resigned to searching through junk piles for its players and slowly fade back into the cellar once Davis and Wieters go.But if he succeeds, it firms up the rotation and that helps make us a contender.

That success will encourage ownership to spend the money needed to retain Wieters and Davis, and also give those two more reason to stay here. That's a big part of this team's core right there.

I think we're better off w/Jimenez because he's a better pitcher.He has the potential to be very good.And therefore, I'd rather take that gamble with him instead with Arroyo.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #20 by mikezpen » February 20th, 2014, 5:59 am

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Last edited by mikezpen on February 20th, 2014, 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #21 by mikezpen » February 20th, 2014, 6:00 am

Seafordeagles, you pose a good question when you ask if we're better off with Jimenez instead of Arroyo. First, I think Jimenez is a better choice than Bronson Arroyo although he is a gamble. Very importantly, this gamble could determine the franchise's direction for the near future. If Jimenez fails, ownership could refuse to take any more chances on expensive free agents. In such case, the Orioles w/b resigned to searching through junk piles for its players and slowly fade back into the cellar once Davis and Wieters go.But if he succeeds, it firms up the rotation and that helps make us a contender.

That success will encourage ownership to spend the money needed to retain Wieters and Davis, and also give those two more reason to stay here. That's a big part of this team's core right there.

I think we're better off w/Jimenez because he's a better pitcher.He has the potential to be very good.And therefore, I'd rather take that gamble with him instead of with Arroyo.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #22 by ofahn » February 20th, 2014, 2:45 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:You're great at pointing out failures and not recognizing improvements.

If you're complimenting me for knowing when I've had enough Kool Aid, I thank you.

Almost every neutral evaluation I have seen on Jimenez expresses substantial concern over his inconsistencies. Does he have the most talent in our rotation? Probably. Does that mean he'll perform like a #2 SP or better? Er ... maybe.

IMO IF he recognizes that he'll now be pitching in front of the best defense in his career and focuses on ground balls instead of Ks, AND doesn't lose his sh$t when what he thinks is a long out turns into a HR at Camden Yards we'll really have something. If he fails in any of those areas it will get ugly.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #23 by ofahn » February 20th, 2014, 2:50 pm

mikezpen wrote:this is huge gamble that could determine the franchise's direction for the near future. If he fails, ownership could refuse to take any more chances on expensive free agents.

That was my biggest concern, too.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #24 by ofahn » February 20th, 2014, 2:55 pm

mikezpen wrote:success will encourage ownership to spend the money needed to retain Wieters and Davis

I'd REALLY like to believe that, BUT with Scot Boras as their agent I don't see extensions happening. Eight, nine, or ten year deals would be planting payroll time bombs in our future.

IMO Wieters through the 2019 season and Davis through 2020 makes sense. Anything beyond that becomes a real problem.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #25 by Old Sneakers » February 20th, 2014, 6:15 pm

ofahn wrote:
IMO Wieters through the 2019 season and Davis through 2020 makes sense. Anything beyond that becomes a real problem.


Weiters will end up getting far too much. Otherwise I agree. Signing up Davis to 2020 would likely net a solid return. Pricey, but solid.
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Re: Missing on Bronson Arroyo isn't devastating

PostPost #26 by osforlife » February 20th, 2014, 7:49 pm

I posted my thoughts on Wieters' and Davis' extensions here; viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2308
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