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Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #1 by Seafordeagles » February 12th, 2014, 4:28 pm

I thought this was interesting to say the least. It also magnifies how hard it is deal with the Orioles. It's already happened with Arroyo who was offered a better deal to sign with the Orioles. It looks like they have a lot of confederate money. Free agents and their agents will avoid Baltimore because of the owner's policies.

"One agent asked Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports, "Who would ever admit they signed with Baltimore without a physical clearance in advance?" Rosenthal continues, stating that some feel the Orioles' stinginess on physical exams this offseason -- Grant Balfour and Tyler Colvin have both failed physicals after agreeing with Baltimore -- is due to the fact that the team was burned by Tsuyoshi Wada's two-year, $8.15MM contract. The Japanese lefty signed prior to the 2012 season but never threw a pitch for the O's due to Tommy John surgery."
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #2 by thezeroes » February 12th, 2014, 4:52 pm

This actually works to the Orioles advantage. Any of the Free Agents that are of Questionable Health/Durability will not return any of the Orioles overtures and therefore management will not have to waste any of their time on them. Also the "Pundits" of the game can not say we are all in on anybody to get fickle fans hopes up that something is eminent.

By enlarge the system of free agency with the style that a lot of the Agents use to garner the best bid for a players service is best left to the teams that can afford the High Price/Long Term/Little Reward Contracts that seem to be dotting the landscape these last few years. 10/7/even 5 year contracts for players in their age 32 season is just plain stupid. I for one am glad that the Orioles do not pursue this endeavor.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #3 by Old Sneakers » February 12th, 2014, 5:53 pm

I don't agree with the
"works to the Orioles advantage"
part of your post thezeroes. But I do agree that 10/7 and 5 year contracts are flat out dumb on aging players.

I think the team should be careful about signing injury risk players and free agents should in fact pass a physical prior to agreeing to a deal. However, the Orioles need to keep the lid on things until all this is sorted. Why alienate players, agents and even fans due to this poor practice?
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #4 by Seafordeagles » February 12th, 2014, 6:21 pm

thezeroes wrote:This actually works to the Orioles advantage. Any of the Free Agents that are of Questionable Health/Durability will not return any of the Orioles overtures and therefore management will not have to waste any of their time on them. Also the "Pundits" of the game can not say we are all in on anybody to get fickle fans hopes up that something is eminent.

By enlarge the system of free agency with the style that a lot of the Agents use to garner the best bid for a players service is best left to the teams that can afford the High Price/Long Term/Little Reward Contracts that seem to be dotting the landscape these last few years. 10/7/even 5 year contracts for players in their age 32 season is just plain stupid. I for one am glad that the Orioles do not pursue this endeavor.


I guess we will continue to sign the Ryan Webb's of the world while the "large market" team like Seattle, KC, Milwaukee, and even the Twins sign better players.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #5 by osforlife » February 12th, 2014, 7:55 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
I guess we will continue to sign the Ryan Webb's of the world while the "large market" team like Seattle, KC, Milwaukee, and even the Twins sign better players.

The Twins spent $87MM on three pitchers with a combined 4.45 ERA this off-season. I'd rather make no deal than a bad deal.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #6 by ofahn » February 12th, 2014, 8:13 pm

osforlife wrote:The Twins spent $87MM on three pitchers with a combined 4.45 ERA this off-season. I'd rather make no deal than a bad deal.

...and those pitchers were just seat warmers until their REAL talent arrives from the minors.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #7 by Seafordeagles » February 12th, 2014, 8:29 pm

You know we all have our theories on the Orioles like who we should sign or who we should trade for. The thing that I will never agree with is the signing salaries. The Twins spent 87MM for 3 pitchers (that's the going rate). If they can do it why can't the Orioles.

Right now the Orioles don't have a 5th starter. Right now some people would rather see Norris in the bullpen, that's 2 spots. At least the freakin Twins are trying to do something unlike the BALTIMORE ORIOLES.

Then I hear things like "another team spent too much for that guy" or "they signed him for too long". Just once why can't the BALTIMORE ORIOLES OVERSPEND. Some guys act like it's their money. The owner is pocketing everything, and he is making a ton of money, and could care less about his fan base.

Please help me about losing draft picks. If the Orioles signed Santana and Morales, I know they would lose the #17 pick (pure crapshoot if the pick makes it or not), would they lose another pick? Losing the supplemental draft pick last year didn't matter to Duquette in the Norris trade.

This team is close and those 2 players could make a real difference,
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #8 by thezeroes » February 13th, 2014, 3:42 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:This team is close and those 2 players could make a real difference,


Do you have access to a spreadsheet??

I ask for the simple reason being that if you do then do the math with the spreadsheet. The very minimum that a ball club can have with is 40 man roster is $14 million. Major league minimum salary for 2014 is $5000,000 then add in the salary of those placed on the 40 man roster (15) at $100,000 this will give you a base going forward. Now for each individual that has a salary that either has been negotiated/agreed upon either through free agency or other means (Arbitration, Agreed upon Contracts, Time of Service)total that up. Now look forward to the next five seasons and how those contracts will increase and you have the future payroll of the ball club. Now add in the three to four year contracts of those you want to sign through free agency and you get a number that is unsustainable for the Baltimore Orioles if they have any hope of signing extensions for those that are or will become free agents in the next few years.

Simply put are you willing to sign these free agents at the expense of not being able to re-sign any of the Arbitration Eligible or pending free agents??? This is your call.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #9 by Seafordeagles » February 13th, 2014, 4:43 pm

thezeroes wrote:
Do you have access to a spreadsheet??

I ask for the simple reason being that if you do then do the math with the spreadsheet. The very minimum that a ball club can have with is 40 man roster is $14 million. Major league minimum salary for 2014 is $5000,000 then add in the salary of those placed on the 40 man roster (15) at $100,000 this will give you a base going forward. Now for each individual that has a salary that either has been negotiated/agreed upon either through free agency or other means (Arbitration, Agreed upon Contracts, Time of Service)total that up. Now look forward to the next five seasons and how those contracts will increase and you have the future payroll of the ball club. Now add in the three to four year contracts of those you want to sign through free agency and you get a number that is unsustainable for the Baltimore Orioles if they have any hope of signing extensions for those that are or will become free agents in the next few years.

Simply put are you willing to sign these free agents at the expense of not being able to re-sign any of the Arbitration Eligible or pending free agents??? This is your call.


This is not my call. I don't know what the profits are for the Baltimore Orioles or how much it takes to run the franchise. What I do know is they saved 10 million difference in the Johnson trade. They got 25MM in the national tv revenue. They continue to fleece the Nationals with MASN money. All of their arbitration eligibles players are signed.

Do you know the number that is unsustainable for the Baltimore Orioles
Do you know how much money they make?
Are the Orioles making a profit? If yes, how much?
Do you know if they are losing money? If yes, how much?
Are you suggesting to not sign free agents?
Do you want Baltimore in the playoffs every year?
Do you think the Orioles are close and can 2 players make a difference (this is what you quoted me on)?
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #10 by thezeroes » February 13th, 2014, 4:49 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Are you suggesting to not sign free agents?


Yes, I am suggesting that unless you can sign someone that would give you an Eight win advantage over what you have then just skip the whole scenario of Free Agency.

This class of Free Agents had No one in it that for a reasonable length of contract would give the Orioles enough of a push to be above the competition.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #11 by thezeroes » February 13th, 2014, 4:49 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Are you suggesting to not sign free agents?


Yes, I am suggesting that unless you can sign someone that would give you an Eight win advantage over what you have then just skip the whole scenario of Free Agency.

This class of Free Agents had No one in it that for a reasonable length of contract would give the Orioles enough of a push to be above the competition.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #12 by Seafordeagles » February 13th, 2014, 5:02 pm

thezeroes wrote:
Yes, I am suggesting that unless you can sign someone that would give you an Eight win advantage over what you have then just skip the whole scenario of Free Agency.

This class of Free Agents had No one in it that for a reasonable length of contract would give the Orioles enough of a push to be above the competition.


I don't disagree when "discussing length of contract". There were some shorter contracts signed like Tim Hudson, Gavin Floyd that could easily replace our 4th and 5th starters. Garza would be a upgrade as well at 4 years.

Can you answer any of the questions I asked you?
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #13 by osforlife » February 13th, 2014, 5:31 pm

The Orioles' failed physicals have been blown out of proportion. The fans need something to complain about; this was an easy target. Conspiracy theories took place that management decided that they didn't want to go through with the deals anymore. I doubt it. Tyler Colvin wasn't going to get much in the major league deal he signed with Baltimore anyway. So, money was obviously not the issue here, it was Colvin's health. I think it's pretty obvious why he hasn't signed with a team yet. As for Grant Balfour, that was secretly a blessing in disguise, but that's besides the point. The Rays ended signing him for 75% of what he would have gotten in Baltimore, so obviously he's not perfect. The Orioles have been actively searching for upgrades through the off-season. They just aren't willing to make a bad deal of a healthy player or a okay deal on a questionably healthy player. Hopefully, Yoon passes the physical and all this talk about Baltimore not wanting to upgrade their team is thrown out.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #14 by thezeroes » February 13th, 2014, 5:49 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Can you answer any of the questions I asked you?


Do you know the number that is unsustainable for the Baltimore Orioles?
For Fiscal Year 2014, Dan Duquette stated the payroll could go to $100 Million. If you add in a 5% increase per year IF attendance continues upward then you would have :

2015 - $105 Million

2016 - $110 Million

2017 _ $115.500 Million

Do you know how much money they make?

This is none of my or your business as they are not a Public Owned entity.

Are the Orioles making a profit? If yes, how much?

See Above.

Do you know if they are losing money? If yes, how much?

See Above.

Are you suggesting to not sign free agents?

Already answered this question.

Do you want Baltimore in the playoffs every year?

This is not a realistic endeavor if you are honest with yourself. I would like to see them to be competitive.

Do you think the Orioles are close and can 2 players make a difference (this is what you quoted me on)?

Close is a perception of all fans. I think they are competitive and need a lot to go their way to win the division. With the roster management the Orioles have had under Buck Showalter and with the addition of the frugal Dan Duquette, I do not believe for an instant that the roster the team starts with will be the roster they end up with at game 162. This movement and evaluation is what will make them a contender year after year. By signing a roster full of players that have no options will cause the Orioles to either be good, bad or mediocre given how the talent plays. With all spots guaranteed from the start of the season you end up with having to eat contracts to move players around with injuries and such. I see that type of roster as a Death Knell to any organization.
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Re: Agents have learned from failed physicals with the Orioles

PostPost #15 by Seafordeagles » February 13th, 2014, 6:09 pm

Man, it's like dealing with a politician. time to move on....................
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