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Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #1 by Seafordeagles » February 11th, 2014, 9:21 am

Here's the link with some excerpts:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orio ... 9758.story

"But, according to one source, another serious factor was that the Orioles had failed two players' physicals this offseason -- outfielder Tyler Colvin's one-year deal and the high-profile decision to walk away from Balfour and his two-year, $15 million agreement due to concerns about his right shoulder.

The concern, the source said, was that if the Orioles weren't 100 percent committed to Arroyo and the deal they had offered, the club could pull back on the deal after the physical and attempt to re-negotiate an agreement.
And, this late in the offseason, especially with a 37-year-old, there'd be very little chance he could find a similar contract elsewhere if he were perceived as potentially damaged goods"


My belief is that it is VERY HARD to conduct any kind of business with the manipulative owner the Orioles have. Players just don't want to go through the crap and agents detest the snail like process of doing a deal with the Orioles.
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #2 by Rising O's » February 11th, 2014, 5:18 pm

Angelos just sees dollar signs. A 3rd place team with a few good players who can tease the fans with a wildcard run. That gets MASN ratings up, as he pockets all the extra cash. He has already said he will not compete with the ALE spending. What does that mean for us? Bye to Chris Davis, bye to Matt Wieters. And if the Orioles are serious about competing with Gausman, Bundy, Rodriguez, etc, then the team should have traded both players this off-season to get the most out of them. Likely it will be more of the same, trade them too late, mid 2015 and get not so much in return.

After the contracts to Markakis, Roberts and Wada have all blown up in his face would he even consider a fair market deal for Davis? Or was the Jones deal enough of a bone for the fans?

And are the Orioles going to be in on any of these upcoming Cuban free agents to be?
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #3 by Seafordeagles » February 11th, 2014, 5:56 pm

Rising O's wrote:Angelos just sees dollar signs. A 3rd place team with a few good players who can tease the fans with a wildcard run. That gets MASN ratings up, as he pockets all the extra cash. He has already said he will not compete with the ALE spending. What does that mean for us? Bye to Chris Davis, bye to Matt Wieters. And if the Orioles are serious about competing with Gausman, Bundy, Rodriguez, etc, then the team should have traded both players this off-season to get the most out of them. Likely it will be more of the same, trade them too late, mid 2015 and get not so much in return.

After the contracts to Markakis, Roberts and Wada have all blown up in his face would he even consider a fair market deal for Davis? Or was the Jones deal enough of a bone for the fans?

And are the Orioles going to be in on any of these upcoming Cuban free agents to be?


Don't forget dumping Jim Johnson.........................
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #4 by ofahn » February 13th, 2014, 10:57 am

Seafordeagles wrote:Orioles had failed two players' physicals this offseason ... the high-profile decision to walk away from Balfour and his two-year, $15 million agreement due to concerns about his right shoulder.

The normal process in signing a ML free agent is for the team to ask for the player's medical records before they even discuss terms. Let's give the FO the benefit of the doubt for a moment and assume that they did that with Balfour and received an INCOMPLETE file. That would mean that, once they had a chance to PHYSICALLY examine him they would have found things that they hadn't known about before--like a wrist issue; which is EXACTLY what the team has stated was the deal breaker. Remember, the A's (pretty good talent evaluators) passed on him and traded for Jim Johnson at a higher salary. That, alone, sure makes me wonder.

Until I see evidence to the contrary IMO Balfour tried to pull a fast one on the Orioles, got caught, and then "he doth protest too much". Balfour CLAIMED he had "multiple teams interested" in him, but he ended up signing for about sixty cents on the REAL dollar compared with what the Orioles offered him and that was with Tampa. When was last time Tampa was the team that offered the most money to any free agent with "multiple teams interested"?

Seafordeagles wrote:...outfielder Tyler Colvin's one-year deal

IMO Colvin's agent thought the Orioles would be reluctant to back out of another deal after Balfour's so he kind of glossed over a back problem. The PHYSICAL EXAM showed something different. How can anybody be surprised after the horrible year Colvin had last season? He's not Mike Trout, but he has a lot more talent that his results showed last year. Have you noticed that NO OTHER TEAM has offered him a ML contract yet?

As far as Arroyo's comments; he claims that the Orioles offered him more money for the same two years. Does anyone REALLY believe that DD would have done that without having his medical team go through his records with a fine tooth comb after Balfour? Yeah, right.

IMO he was mad that he couldn't coerce the Orioles into giving him a the third guaranteed year and decided, the money being about the same, he preferred to pitch in the NL. Does anyone really believe that, if we would have given him that third year, he wouldn't have said how PROFESSIONAL the organization handled the signing process at the press conference in the Warehouse?
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #5 by ofahn » February 13th, 2014, 11:00 am

Rising O's wrote: What does that mean for us? Bye to Chris Davis, bye to Matt Wieters.

Yes; and IMO we should trade those two ASAP so we can get the maximum value for them and start the rebuild process sooner rather than later.
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #6 by Seafordeagles » February 13th, 2014, 11:10 am

and then we dump Tillman and then Manny Machado, so on, and so on, and so on. when does the "rebuild process" cycle ever stop. Should the Orioles trade all their decent and core players when they are within a year or two to free agency?
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #7 by ofahn » February 13th, 2014, 11:25 am

Seafordeagles wrote:and then we dump Tillman and then Manny Machado

Please take notice that I did not include those two as currency to rebuild the team.

With our current ownership (WISHIN and HOPIN and BITCHIN ISN'T going to change the status quo) we're only going to have a short window for a championship team. Would you rather waste that on a few years of just falling short of the playoffs or build a REAL winner for three or four years? That's the reality whether we face it or not.
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #8 by Seafordeagles » February 13th, 2014, 11:48 am

So you want to give up a player who put up Orioles historical numbers for prospects? Will he hit like that again? Maybe, maybe not. He will be 28 in March. That age puts him in his prime baseball years for at least the next 5 years.

My feeling is you sign him right now to a 7 year extension. That would give you 5 years of his free agency and when the contract is up he will be in his mid 30's. You build around Davis, Adam Jones, and Manny Machado. That's a great core of players.

You asked me this: "would I rather waste that on a few years of just falling short of the playoffs". My answer is if they can make the playoffs in 2012 (I know you didn't think they had a chance of making the playoffs) with a lot of castoffs they can make the playoffs again, and again. This team is better than the 2012 version and adding Santana and Morales along with Yoon makes the Orioles a playoff contender. Also consider in 2015 Gausman should really be ready and Bundy as well, and hopefully Rodriquez.

Sorry for all the WISHIN and HOPIN and BITCHIN.
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #9 by ofahn » February 17th, 2014, 12:00 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:My feeling is you sign him (Davis) right now to a 7 year extension.

If it was as easy as posting it on a forum he would have been extended by now.

As I have posted many times already Chris Davis chose Scott Boras as his agent because he's looking for AS MUCH MONEY AS HE CAN GET.

Would a seven year extension make sense? Of course it would. For the team. Frankly, I could see 140M/7 with another 20M in incentives and awards as being reasonable, BUT Davis HAS to be looking at some the absurd contracts being given to players at his "free" agency age and thinking "why not me?"

Again, you don't retain Boras as your agent if you intend on giving your team a "hometown discount". IF Chris were willing to sign for the contract I suggested and the team blew him off you could bet that Boras would leak that in about half a nano second in order to put pressure on Angelos to cough up the money. The fans would freak and they'd have good reason to.

WISHIN and HOPIN and BITCHIN is NOT going to make it happen.
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #10 by ofahn » February 17th, 2014, 12:15 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:if they can make the playoffs in 2012 (I know you didn't think they had a chance of making the playoffs) with a lot of castoffs they can make the playoffs again, and again.

Um ... , no they can't.

You're correct that I did not believe that the Orioles were a playoff team in 2012 UNTIL Chris Davis changed my mind on May 6th in Boston. From that point on I became more and more cautiously optimistic.

Now, with that being said let's take a realistic look at WHY that team made it to the playoffs. EVERYTHING WENT RIGHT FOR THEM. They were 29 - 9 in one run games. Almost every player acquisition they made worked. They won games they really had no right winning. The Red Sox collapsed and the Rays had problems. Are you really saying you expect those planets to align EVERY season?

Championship teams have the following:

1) Plus pitching
2) The ability to manufacture runs
3) Above average to plus defense

We don't have the first, can't do the second, but do have the third. NO scenario existed this winter where we could have fixed our deficiencies with free agent signings. The core of this team needs adjustments and you do that through trades, and you won't get much back in trades unless you give up real or perceived value.
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Re: Great article from Dan Connolly Baltimore Sun on Arroyo

PostPost #11 by Seafordeagles » February 17th, 2014, 1:16 pm

ofahn wrote:If it was as easy as posting it on a forum he would have been extended by now.

As I have posted many times already Chris Davis chose Scott Boras as his agent because he's looking for AS MUCH MONEY AS HE CAN GET.

Would a seven year extension make sense? Of course it would. For the team. Frankly, I could see 140M/7 with another 20M in incentives and awards as being reasonable, BUT Davis HAS to be looking at some the absurd contracts being given to players at his "free" agency age and thinking "why not me?"

Again, you don't retain Boras as your agent if you intend on giving your team a "hometown discount". IF Chris were willing to sign for the contract I suggested and the team blew him off you could bet that Boras would leak that in about half a nano second in order to put pressure on Angelos to cough up the money. The fans would freak and they'd have good reason to.


WISHIN and HOPIN and BITCHIN is NOT going to make it happen.


I already got the WISHIN and HOPIN and BITCHIN you posted to me the other day. One time was enough, that's why I haven't posted lately to curb my complaining.
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