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Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #1 by Seafordeagles » January 22nd, 2014, 10:28 am

Here's the link to the article:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orio ... 706.column


This one paragraph really stuck out for me:

There is every indication that the Boston Red Sox and New York Yankees are refocused on maintaining their economic hegemony over the American League East and plenty of evidence — including recent comments about the club's market position by Orioles managing partner Peter Angelos — that the club has given up on competing with them for top talent.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #2 by Seafordeagles » January 22nd, 2014, 12:05 pm

OFF TOPIC-------------Tanaka to Yankees. The A.L. east just got a little tougher. The Orioles owner already said he has given up on acquiring top talent anyway.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #3 by osforlife » January 22nd, 2014, 2:53 pm

In my opinion, the Orioles should/could;

1. push towards a $100MM payroll.

2. be in contention for the third highest payroll in the AL EAST(I expect Toronto's payroll to come drastically down in the next few years. They never eclipsed $80MM from 2009-2012, and were at one point as low as $62MM. Their payroll right now is double what it was in 2010-2011).

3. be near/barely in the top dozen team payrolls.

I expect the major remaining free agents to fall into place after the Tanaka signing. I almost certain Baltimore walks into Spring Training with another starter. I would like two, but we get what we get. Also, don't be surprised if they patch up the DH situation. I think they've made it clear the Orioles will go with a platoon. Young or Pearce will man one side. Urrutia should go to AAA. They should final up the Colvin deal, and sign Wilson Betemit to a minor league deal.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #4 by Seafordeagles » January 22nd, 2014, 3:06 pm

osforlife wrote:In my opinion, the Orioles should/could;

1. push towards a $100MM payroll.

2. be in contention for the third highest payroll in the AL EAST(I expect Toronto's payroll to come drastically down in the next few years. They never eclipsed $80MM from 2009-2012, and were at one point as low as $62MM. Their payroll right now is double what it was in 2010-2011).

3. be near/barely in the top dozen team payrolls.

I expect the major remaining free agents to fall into place after the Tanaka signing. I almost certain Baltimore walks into Spring Training with another starter. I would like two, but we get what we get. Also, don't be surprised if they patch up the DH situation. I think they've made it clear the Orioles will go with a platoon. Young or Pearce will man one side. Urrutia should go to AAA. They should final up the Colvin deal, and sign Wilson Betemit to a minor league deal.


I would love to see your points happen. I think all of your points are out of the realm of the owners thinking. In my opinion I don't see any of that happening. I wish I was wrong in my thoughts.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #5 by osforlife » January 22nd, 2014, 3:31 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
I would love to see your points happen. I think all of your points are out of the realm of the owners thinking. In my opinion I don't see any of that happening. I wish I was wrong in my thoughts.

This is if and only if the team continues to win and attendance continues to rise. I would not expect these points to come true if Baltimore finishes at/near the bottom of the division.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #6 by Old Sneakers » January 24th, 2014, 7:07 am

Im a big draft and developer guy. I understand ownership wants a profit. If he put out a strong product, I would argue he's earned that profit. My issue is if you want a cheap payroll you get good at maximizing the draft and turning raw talent into production. I don't want this team being the Marlins north. I want it being even better than the Rays in this manner. I think this team can contend with a lower payroll. If it does a far better job of getting talent out of the draft.

I see this as another lost off season. I don't think anyone that should start will sign with Baltimore. I don't think any worthwhile free agent would even consider it.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #7 by ofahn » January 27th, 2014, 10:49 am

Old Sneakers wrote:Im a big draft and developer guy.

So am I, but it appears that despite any BS that might come out of Angelos's mouth he really isn't. If he were we would have established a significant presence in Latin America long ago. We would have been scouting and signing International talent and our farm system would be full of quality players.

A perfect example is Miguel Sano. A few years ago, when Andy MacPhail justified reducing the ML payroll by about 25M a year by promising to rebuild the farm system, we were involved in the bidding for Sano; a sixteen YO infielder that many respected scouts compared to Miguel Cabrera. In the end the two top bidders were the Twins and the Pirates, two franchises that have LEGITIMATELY rebuilt their teams through their now top rated farm systems. Minnesota ended up with him for just north of 3M and I was SHOCKED that they could have out bid us at that amount. Where was that 25M going? We sure didn't spend it on the June draft. Miguel Sano is MLB's FOURTH best prospect on the list they just released.

Speaking of the draft, we wasted some excellent opportunities there; too. While teams like the Nats-look at their farm system, now-set records on their over-slot signings we addressed our barren farm system by VERY modestly increasing our spending. Players like Kevin Gausman and Kolten Wong were available as over slot picks in the years before they were drafted, but we passed them by because ownership would not allow us to spend the money. Imagine ALREADY having Gausman in our farm system in the summer of 2012 when it came time to pick fourth. Here's a link to the players chosen in that round. It just makes you want to cry. http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft ... ype=junreg

Last year the Cubs went WAAAYYY over budget on International signings because they like liked what was available and were willing to pay the penalty. We traded away a substantial amount of our draft money and didn't use what we had left. The Cubs want to build a winner. Peter Angelos wants to build ticket sales.

SIIIIGGGGHHHH!
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #8 by Old Sneakers » January 27th, 2014, 2:37 pm

ofahn wrote:A perfect example is Miguel Sano. A few years ago, when Andy MacPhail justified reducing the ML payroll by about 25M a year by promising to rebuild the farm system, we were involved in the bidding for Sano; a sixteen YO infielder that many respected scouts compared to Miguel Cabrera. In the end the two top bidders were the Twins and the Pirates, two franchises that have LEGITIMATELY rebuilt their teams through their now top rated farm systems. Minnesota ended up with him for just north of 3M and I was SHOCKED that they could have out bid us at that amount. Where was that 25M going? We sure didn't spend it on the June draft. Miguel Sano is MLB's FOURTH best prospect on the list they just released.
SIIIIGGGGHHHH!


Good example, with one exception. I have no faith in the Orioles ability to do anything other than rush very talented players. On that note I think Machado has proven to be the exception to the rule of "Bumbling"

Sano like most prospects aren't overnight sensations. Had the Orioles signed him they likely would have ruined him.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #9 by ofahn » January 28th, 2014, 10:47 am

Old Sneakers wrote:Sano like most prospects aren't overnight sensations. Had the Orioles signed him they likely would have ruined him.

I've often thought the same thing as I've looked at the players we have passed by in the draft to pick the stiffs we seem to perennially chose, but Sano could have been different. He spent 2010 and 2011 in the Dominican Summer League and rookie ball. It wasn't until 2012 that he played in a full season league, and that was when Duquette took over.

The odds are good that we wouldn't have ruined him.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #10 by ofahn » February 4th, 2014, 11:16 am

Seafordeagles wrote:the club has given up on competing with them for top talent

IMO we have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "top talent".

Over the past ten years or so most of the "top talent" have not made it to free agency because their teams have locked them up before they reach eligibility. What has been allowed to become free agents are (1) players that have excessively overvalued themselves; (2) quality players that are beyond the payroll ability of their teams; (3) players that are injury prone or of dubious character.

This winter has been a perfect example. Almost every contract of more than two years fits the first criteria. Cano at 240M/10? INSANE! I had him valued at 160M/10 and that was generously assuming he would have some real value at DH in the last three years of his contract. Ellsbury at 158M/7? ABSURD! He's a great player, but his game is speed and the last three or four years of that contract will be an albatross. Choo? ANY contract years beyond three were a joke.

Even Garza's modest 52M/4 was ill advised. He's been a fragile pitcher so the Brewers will be lucky if he averages 20 starts a year for them. Santana and Jimenez are really worth no more than two years guaranteed, at best.

Beltran's contract was at least one year too long and McCann's was at least two. And all of that's just the financial loss and does not take into consideration the loss of the draft picks.

I would love to see us extend Davis, Wieters, and Machado; but ONLY for contracts that make sense and don't ruin the ability to build a winning team. At Davis' and Wieters' ages any extension that goes beyond six years FROM NOW is a BIG risk and I find it difficult to believe those players will accept those terms. As a fan I would furious if we risked the franchise by offering more than that because they would then fall into the first criteria. Frankly, Machado may be the toughest extension of all. If he continues his career progression he could look at Cano's ridiculous deal and easily envision a free agent offer of 300M/12. Considering he could play either SS or 3B virtually every team that had the financial ability to make such a inexcusable offer could find a place for him. At that point he would then fall into the first criteria.
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Re: Peter Schmuck: Orioles surely can afford to improve this club

PostPost #11 by Seafordeagles » February 4th, 2014, 1:07 pm

ofahn wrote:IMO we have a difference of opinion on what constitutes "top talent".


That was not my opinion, it is what I had read.

As far as "top talent" it probably means top talent available in the free agent market.
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