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Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #1 by Tucker Blair » January 8th, 2014, 4:59 pm

Alex with an analysis of Orioles pitcher Bud Norris. Breaking down the good, bad, and ugly parts of his game.
http://bit.ly/KxyAOf
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #2 by Old Sneakers » January 8th, 2014, 6:08 pm

Good article. Thank you Alex.

It's absolutely right about his performance too. Lefties, base runners and HRs allowed add up to some rough games. I Also agree with the article you linked too. Giving up that competitive balance pick was too much to surrender.

When I think about that trade and the Feldman trade I begin to think the Orioles are seen somewhat as weak at the bargaining table. It's been stated before but I think we've been had. Others agree and disagree.

In the end we got 2 and a half years of Norris. Hopefully over that span he justifies the trade and makes our front office look smart. Something most of the league proves otherwise.

My question is: How is he suddenly going to cough up a new pitch that gets left handed batters out? Either a pitch is happening or not. I can't imagine him being more than a fourth/fifth starter.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #3 by Tucker Blair » January 8th, 2014, 6:13 pm

Also agree, good article Alex.

A thing to note: We also have to include that 2 1/2 years of control into the deal as a portion of value. That definitely was a reason why Norris was a commodity.

Old Sneakers wrote:Good article. Thank you Alex.

My question is: How is he suddenly going to cough up a new pitch that gets left handed batters out? Either a pitch is happening or not. I can't imagine him being more than a fourth/fifth starter.


Million Dollar question right there.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #4 by LA Detective » January 8th, 2014, 6:13 pm

I think Norris and Chen are two of Wallace's biggest areas of opportunity. Both need to use their off speed stuff more. In Norris' case he also needs to work on his FB control. I think Chen has a better chance to accomplish this than Norris. Does Norris have an off speed pitch? Is it something he was once taught but went away from? He does have some talent but If he doesn't accomplish this then he certainly belongs in the Pen.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #5 by AlexConway » January 8th, 2014, 9:07 pm

Yeah, I don't see how he develops a pitch to get lefties out, that's just my only guess for how he can get better at getting lefties out. My guess is that he can't pitch on the outside part of the plate to lefties. Therefore, maybe something like a changeup that fades away from lefties and into righties so he can work away to lefties more? Does that make sense from a scouting point of view?
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #6 by Tucker Blair » January 8th, 2014, 9:54 pm

AlexConway wrote:Yeah, I don't see how he develops a pitch to get lefties out, that's just my only guess for how he can get better at getting lefties out. My guess is that he can't pitch on the outside part of the plate to lefties. Therefore, maybe something like a changeup that fades away from lefties and into righties so he can work away to lefties more? Does that make sense from a scouting point of view?



Yea that makes sense. A good change is very deceptive against the opposite side. That fade seemingly makes the ball disappear and often causes hitters to be out in front, pull their head, drop their shoulder, etc.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #7 by osforlife » January 9th, 2014, 7:02 pm

The fact that we are even considering putting Bud Norris in the bullpen, is a sign of how bad of a trade this was.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #8 by ofahn » January 10th, 2014, 2:11 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:When I think about that trade and the Feldman trade I begin to think the Orioles are seen somewhat as weak at the bargaining table. It's been stated before but I think we've been had.

Due to pressure from ownership DD was placed in the position of trying to maintain the facade that the team was a legitimate contender despite all of its obvious flaws. Thus, DD forced the issue by trying to acquire a "proven" SP when none was really available for what he had to spend.

It's not really fair to second guess DD at this point, but I wish he would have made the same offer exchanging Mike Wright for Hoes and adding a substantial amount of our International money (which he would have had good reason at that point to know that Angelos wouldn't let him spend anyway) to the Cubs for Jeff Jeff Samardzija. We would have had a better pitcher with the same amount of control.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #9 by ofahn » January 10th, 2014, 2:13 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:My question is: How is he suddenly going to cough up a new pitch that gets left handed batters out?

Place him in the BP and he might suddenly develop the desire to develop that new pitch.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #10 by ofahn » January 10th, 2014, 2:15 pm

osforlife wrote:The fact that we are even considering putting Bud Norris in the bullpen, is a sign of how bad of a trade this was.

Agreed. SIIIGGGGHHHH!!!!
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #11 by Old Sneakers » January 10th, 2014, 2:28 pm

I like LJ Hoes, I really thought he was going to get meaningful ABs in Baltimore last season. I suspect that unless a player projects to hit 20 HRs a season someone high up disregards a player. I think it's dumb as the team needs high OBP guys even more.

I was saddened to see Josh Hader moved as well as that competitive balance pick. Hader, still in the lower minors not too much of a loss. That top 40 choice is going to hurt though and we got burned.

As for Wright, I politely disagree. He could just as easily be an important part of the rotation within the next year and a half. If not, he's likely the teams closer for several years. I would rather we hang onto him and have something for an extended time frame.

Had the team spent to keep Feldman, the trade ultimately could have been forgiven. In hindsight though, if you weren't willing to resign him then you don't trade to acquire him in the first place. Pure stupidity.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #12 by ofahn » January 10th, 2014, 2:34 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:As for Wright, I politely disagree. He could just as easily be an important part of the rotation within the next year and a half. If not, he's likely the teams closer for several years. I would rather we hang onto him and have something for an extended time frame.

I agree with your analysis of his potential, but Samardzija is a proven #4 or better ML SP and Wright is still a question mark.

Personally; I would have still traded Arrieta and Strop for future pieces, but I would have SOLD Jim Johnson and JJ Hardy for a bunch of quality prospects and focused on 2014 or 2015.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #13 by Seafordeagles » January 10th, 2014, 2:42 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:When I think about that trade and the Feldman trade I begin to think the Orioles are seen somewhat as weak at the bargaining table. It's been stated before but I think we've been had. Others agree and disagree.


The Orioles have also fleeced other teams in their history of trades. It kind of evens out over the long haul. I do agree with you about Feldman. Hopefully Norris can be our Hammel from 2012. Maybe the "light" will finally go off for Norris, Matusz, and Britton.
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #14 by ofahn » January 10th, 2014, 3:21 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Maybe the "light" will finally go off for Norris, Matusz, and Britton.

I don't see Matusz as getting a chance to start here. In fact, I would be surprised if he heads north with us.

As for the other two IMO there's about a 70% or so chance that one of them will get their act together. Won't speculate which one; however...............
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Re: Bud Norris: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

PostPost #15 by osforlife » January 10th, 2014, 9:17 pm

I'm not sure why Matusz and Britton are even being considered for the starting rotation.

1) I don't get moved up to varsity with a 5.00 ERA on junior varsity.

2) I don't get moved into an advanced placement class with a C average in the honors class.

3) I don't get promoted to a higher position at the workplace if I'm simply doing an average job at the job I currently have.

Why should Matusz and Britton get promoted for something they obviously don't deserve?
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