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Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #1 by docjj » December 25th, 2013, 6:07 pm

If you were DD and Angelo$e, which would you sign?

Obviously, Tanaka has the most upside. But his price tag will be astronomical. Even with all of the savings and cheap-skatery Duquette and Angelo$e have managed, he probably is just too much money.

So that leaves the discount bin. I guess I'd go with Santana. Garza gets hurt a lot. Jiminez walks too many guys and hasn't been able to replicate his success from years ago. Arroyo is old. Santana isn't a star anymore, but he might make a serviceable mid rotation guy.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #2 by Seafordeagles » December 26th, 2013, 10:21 am

I don't see any of those guys coming to Baltimore unless they are playing against the Orioles. I'm resigned to the Orioles not doing anything substantial. The owner (who I never mention by name) wants the payroll reduced. Never mind the fact of the money saved on Jim Johnson, Brian Roberts, or the new tv revenue, he's padding his pockets.

He will have to spend money on the arbitration eligible players, so he will report that he is spending more money.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #3 by osforlife » December 26th, 2013, 11:11 am

I would never sign Santana and/or Jimenez. They're very expensive, inconsistent, and attached to a draft pick. They're off-limits. Out of the next three, I would sign Tanaka, Garza, or Arroyo in that order.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #4 by dan72 » December 26th, 2013, 12:08 pm

I've been vocal in support of Jiminez despite the draft pick. He gives you a front of the rotation arm, that can help the club win now. Since we all agree that signing Wieters and Davis long term is a slippery slope, our window to win is 2014 and 2015. Even a college pitcher selected in the next draft is not a slam dunk to impact the team during the '14 or '15 seasons.

To answer the question though, Jiminez is the only pitcher I would want. Be leary of Tanaka, he has a million miles on his arm already. I feel like who ever takes him could be looking at another DiceK type flop.

I am in agreement with most that the club will never spend REAL money on REAL pitching. We will always be bottom feeders, cleaning up the scraps from the contending teams. Occasionally a Tillman will fall in our laps. I have come to grips with the fact that A) pitchers don't want to pitch in OPACY and B) Angelos doesn't care about winning.
The Oaklands and Tampa Bays of the world scout and develop better than we do, which is why they will be more successful. Can you ever see the day that the Orioles pay Yoennis Cespedes? I don't.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #5 by Seafordeagles » December 26th, 2013, 2:05 pm

osforlife wrote:I would never sign Santana and/or Jimenez. They're very expensive, inconsistent, and attached to a draft pick. They're off-limits. Out of the next three, I would sign Tanaka, Garza, or Arroyo in that order.


Roch posted this about the Orioles have no interest in Tanaka. So you can cross that guy off your list. Sadly we're bottom of the barrel scraping now and in the future.

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roc ... anaka.html
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #6 by osforlife » December 27th, 2013, 1:11 pm

dan72 wrote:I've been vocal in support of Jiminez despite the draft pick. He gives you a front of the rotation arm, that can help the club win now. Since we all agree that signing Wieters and Davis long term is a slippery slope, our window to win is 2014 and 2015. Even a college pitcher selected in the next draft is not a slam dunk to impact the team during the '14 or '15 seasons.

To answer the question though, Jiminez is the only pitcher I would want. Be leary of Tanaka, he has a million miles on his arm already. I feel like who ever takes him could be looking at another DiceK type flop.

I am in agreement with most that the club will never spend REAL money on REAL pitching. We will always be bottom feeders, cleaning up the scraps from the contending teams. Occasionally a Tillman will fall in our laps. I have come to grips with the fact that A) pitchers don't want to pitch in OPACY and B) Angelos doesn't care about winning.
The Oaklands and Tampa Bays of the world scout and develop better than we do, which is why they will be more successful. Can you ever see the day that the Orioles pay Yoennis Cespedes? I don't.

What makes you so interested in Ubaldo Jimenez? Sure, he's durable, fairly young, and talented, but he comes with draft pick compensation and has been pretty bad the last three years. From 2011-2013, Jimenez recorded a 4.45 ERA, 1.446 WHIP, and just a 2.04 K/BB. He has trouble throwing strikes and a very lucky LOB% last year. I'd love to have him, but as his cost? NO.

Roch posted this about the Orioles have no interest in Tanaka. So you can cross that guy off your list. Sadly we're bottom of the barrel scraping now and in the future.


I've read the article and I'm disappointing. He's a young, top of the rotation pitcher, with no draft pick compensation, whom would be Baltimore's ace for half a decade. And all he would cost is money. I never said that is the order Duquette will sign those pitchers, just the order that I would prefer.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #7 by osforlife » December 27th, 2013, 1:14 pm

Let's not forget that these are not the only pitchers on the market. AJ Burnett, Chris Capuano, and Scott Baker are all very capable pitchers. Suk-Min Yoon seems like an interesting wildcard too.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #8 by Seafordeagles » December 27th, 2013, 3:40 pm

osforlife wrote:I've read the article and I'm disappointing.


That's an understatement. The Orioles have been very competitive the last 2 years. I think the owner has a issue with winning. To be successful in today's market you have to keep adding decent players. The Orioles are bargain hunting and it's a sad state of affairs for their fan base.

The owner could care less about the fans of the Orioles. I really don't understand the reasoning behind it. I think it will be sooner than later that Buck will have enough of the miserly ways of the owner.

FREE AGENTS BEWARE OF BALTIMORE. You never know what shows up from their physicals.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #9 by osforlife » December 27th, 2013, 5:09 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:FREE AGENTS BEWARE OF BALTIMORE. You never know what shows up from their physicals.

Let's be honest, the fallout of the Grant Balfour deal is a blessing in disguise.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #10 by Seafordeagles » December 27th, 2013, 5:24 pm

osforlife wrote:Let's be honest, the fallout of the Grant Balfour deal is a blessing in disguise.


I can not agree with you on that. Not signing Balfour has made the Orioles a complete mockery in the eyes of agents. That's been reported from many different media outlets.

Definitely not a blessing.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #11 by ofahn » December 27th, 2013, 6:10 pm

docjj wrote: I guess I'd go with Santana. Garza gets hurt a lot. Jiminez walks too many guys and hasn't been able to replicate his success from years ago. Arroyo is old. Santana isn't a star anymore, but he might make a serviceable mid rotation guy.

If you mean ERVIN Santana I STRONGLY disagree.

He's looking for four or five years at about 20M a year. That's for a #3 SP in his decline phase AND he'll cost us a draft pick. How does that make sense?

I'd rather offer Arroyo a two year contract. He'll pitch as many innings as Ervin Santana (maybe more) and cost about half as much per year. I would also sign JOHAN Santana to a low base incentives contract and give him a chance to go for a title. I think he still wants to compete.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #12 by ofahn » December 27th, 2013, 6:12 pm

osforlife wrote:I would never sign ... Jimenez.

Agreed. Big contract/big risk.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #13 by ofahn » December 27th, 2013, 6:15 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:I think the owner has a issue with winning.

Change that to reducing his profit and we're in agreement. He's strip mined this team and farm system the last couple of years to maximize the attendance and his profit. I would expect more of the same.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #14 by osforlife » December 27th, 2013, 7:03 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
I can not agree with you on that. Not signing Balfour has made the Orioles a complete mockery in the eyes of agents. That's been reported from many different media outlets.

Definitely not a blessing.

I'm sorry, but I can't see how Grant Balfour failing his physical has anything to do with free agents' perspectives on coming to Baltimore.

Also, strictly from a baseball/financial view, paying a 36 year old reliever with a balky shoulder and worrisome home/road splits $8MM a year is ludicrous, even in today's market.
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Re: Garza, Jiminez, Santana, Arroyo, Tanaka

PostPost #15 by Seafordeagles » December 27th, 2013, 9:43 pm

osforlife wrote:I'm sorry, but I can't see how Grant Balfour failing his physical has anything to do with free agents' perspectives on coming to Baltimore.
Also, strictly from a baseball/financial view, paying a 36 year old reliever with a balky shoulder and worrisome home/road splits $8MM a year is ludicrous, even in today's market.


You're kidding right? Haven't you read anything on the subject? I've read numerous accounts on what agents have been saying.

Here's a article from Rosenthal and some excerpts:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/balt ... vis-122213

Well, tell that to Balfour, whose position in the marketplace is now damaged. Tell that to other free agents, who surely will take note of the Orioles’ conduct.

"This will factor into every competent agent's thought process going forward," said an agent who asked not to be identified, and is not involved with Balfour.
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