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Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #1 by Tucker Blair » November 19th, 2013, 8:20 am

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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #2 by Old Sneakers » November 19th, 2013, 6:12 pm

Another nice article, thank you.

I still think Chicago got a steal in getting Arrieta. I understand dealing him, he wasn't going to work out here. But "Sheesh!" we gave up too much value for a rental we are unlikely to resign.

As for Matuzs I really agree with you. Coming out of college he was supposed to have very good command and a very high ceiling and floor. He's failed to reach either. I honestly do not know what happened. It's inexcusable.

With Britton I agree 100% that third pitch just has not come around. As I recall he was supposed to live up to be a back of the rotation type starter. Something he also has failed to live up to and it's a shame. The team has so much need for him.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #3 by docjj » November 20th, 2013, 9:24 am

They all stink! Period.

This organization just can't develop players. I don't know if it's the scouting reports, coaching, conditioning, medical evaluators, instructors, etc. We just can't develop talent. That's why I hate reading about how we're not going to sign free agents, we're going to scout and draft young talent instead.

The truth is, we can't scout and develop young talent. We haven't been able to in 30 years.

With our track record of scouting and developing young players, we are better off signing an already developed star quality player as a free agent. I know it's expensive. I know there's risk- injuries, etc. I know we can't outspend the Yankees and Angels. But with our track record, we're better off signing a Tanaka than trying to develop a Matusz.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #4 by AlexConway » November 20th, 2013, 11:40 am

docjj wrote:They all stink! Period.

This organization just can't develop players. I don't know if it's the scouting reports, coaching, conditioning, medical evaluators, instructors, etc. We just can't develop talent. That's why I hate reading about how we're not going to sign free agents, we're going to scout and draft young talent instead.

The truth is, we can't scout and develop young talent. We haven't been able to in 30 years.

With our track record of scouting and developing young players, we are better off signing an already developed star quality player as a free agent. I know it's expensive. I know there's risk- injuries, etc. I know we can't outspend the Yankees and Angels. But with our track record, we're better off signing a Tanaka than trying to develop a Matusz.


I think its a fair to say that the organization in the past has had difficulty in developing players in particular pitchers. However, with a new GM in his third year and an organizational remodeling underway I think its unfair to say that it will never happen into the future. New people are in charge, you have to give them at least a semblance of a chance before you deem DD and crew to have failed.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #5 by jonas winslo » November 20th, 2013, 5:11 pm

Scouts are always magically finding players at their peak and sign them before they dorp off the precipice!
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #6 by mikezpen » November 25th, 2013, 7:21 am

Those guys were all rushed up here before they were ready, and you see the results. Add Ponson, Cabrera and Matt Riley-AND GAUSMAN. Same thing.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #7 by Tucker Blair » November 25th, 2013, 9:43 am

mikezpen wrote:Those guys were all rushed up here before they were ready, and you see the results. Add Ponson, Cabrera and Matt Riley-AND GAUSMAN. Same thing.


Absolutely. There is a difference in dominating in the minors and dominating in the minors with pure stuff. All of the guys were dominant in the minors, and it showed in the numbers. However, there is a difference in being dominant just by having better stuff than your typical MiLB guy. You get away with little errors on the mound at AA that will be extremely exploited at the MLB level. Command can be average at AA and you can destroy the league. At the MLB level, it can cause severe inconsistencies (exceptions to every rule, but I think we can all agree this is the general tendency).

Players need to learn more than just refining their arsenal and their game. They need to learn the mental side of the game as well - what pitches work against certain hitters, what counts to avoid certain area, etc. The list is about as big as a Game of Thrones book probably. It ain't easy, and a lot of stuff is hidden from the public until that player jumps to the MLB and gets shelled.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #8 by ofahn » December 23rd, 2013, 9:48 am

mikezpen wrote:Those guys were all rushed up here before they were ready, and you see the results. Add Ponson, Cabrera and Matt Riley-AND GAUSMAN. Same thing.

SIIIGGGHHH!!! Agreed!

POINTS!
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #9 by LA Detective » January 7th, 2014, 6:27 pm

I think it has been a whole organization problem top to bottom for a long, long time (since Earl left). I hope with Wallace and group this changes. I do think Gausman made strides last year and is close. His talent and make up is far greater than the others mentioned. That being said, I hope he starts in AAA and only is moved up when he is complete. If this happens I think he can make a huge jump to the front of the rotation. Not just be a 5th starter that is still learning.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #10 by Old Sneakers » January 7th, 2014, 6:40 pm

LA Detective wrote:I think it has been a whole organization problem top to bottom for a long, long time (since Earl left). I hope with Wallace and group this changes. I do think Gausman made strides last year and is close. His talent and make up is far greater than the others mentioned. That being said, I hope he starts in AAA and only is moved up when he is complete. If this happens I think he can make a huge jump to the front of the rotation. Not just be a 5th starter that is still learning.


He just has to be competent. I expect growing pains with young pitching. Almost no one becomes a top guy overnight. But when a prospect is promoted and looks like he's over his head then you know he wasn't finished. It's why the past few years favored spending to get inning eaters. I half suspect Britton or Matusz to be the team's fifth starter when the season begins. Then give McFarland an extended look. Mainly to give Gausman time in AAA. Will it happen? Who knows.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #11 by Rising O's » January 7th, 2014, 11:26 pm

On Britton the question would be, is he hiding an injury. Do the Orioles know about it and are seeking to get enough improvement in order to move him for something of value. If its simply mechanical someone should have picked-up on it, but then again...

I remember under Dave Trembley how players regressed, think Tillman's lost velocity.

Matusz's was a can't miss player who the Orioles helped miss. The Orioles are going to let him start in spring training and that is what he and the organization need regardless of the outcome.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #12 by osforlife » January 9th, 2014, 6:32 pm

If the Orioles open the season with Britton or Matusz in the starting rotation, you can expect a win total significantly below .500.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #13 by ofahn » January 10th, 2014, 2:18 pm

mikezpen wrote:Those guys were all rushed up here before they were ready

Under Angelos it seems to have become the new "Oriole Way".

IMO part of that foolishness was an effort by the incompetent fools that were running our farm system to make it appear that they were actually accomplishing something.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #14 by ofahn » January 10th, 2014, 2:20 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:Almost no one becomes a top guy overnight. But when a prospect is promoted and looks like he's over his head then you know he wasn't finished.

It ABSURD to bring ANY player to the majors before they're ready; and that goes DOUBLE for a pitcher.
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Re: Looking Back at Britton, Matusz, Arrieta and Tillman

PostPost #15 by ofahn » January 10th, 2014, 2:23 pm

osforlife wrote:If the Orioles open the season with Britton or Matusz in the starting rotation, you can expect a win total significantly below .500.

If you change that to "If the Orioles open the season with Britton or Matusz AND Norris in the starting rotation" I would agree with you. If Britton finally gets his act together and takes Norris' spot I could actually see an improvement in our SP.
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