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Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #1 by Tucker Blair » November 6th, 2013, 8:47 am

A nice piece from Luke Jackson at the Depot. I am quoted in the piece as well.

http://camdendepot.blogspot.com/2013/11 ... davis.html
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #2 by dan72 » November 6th, 2013, 10:08 am

Great article, only thing that was not mentioned was the expense to extend Manny. Before the injury fans were already clamouring for an extension for the young 3B. So are we in wait and see mode now due to the injury? Honestly I would place a higher priority on extending Manny versus extending Davis and Wieters. Manny is becoming the face of the franchise and I have no doubt his star will soon out shine Jones' s.
If I could play GM, I would rather spend the money on young stating pitching. The move I would make would be to keep Davis and trade Wieters. I doubt that will happen, Buck holds defense in such high regard.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #3 by Tucker Blair » November 6th, 2013, 10:11 am

dan72 wrote:Great article, only thing that was not mentioned was the expense to extend Manny. Before the injury fans were already clamouring for an extension for the young 3B. So are we in wait and see mode now due to the injury? Honestly I would place a higher priority on extending Manny versus extending Davis and Wieters. Manny is becoming the face of the franchise and I have no doubt his star will soon out shine Jones' s.
If I could play GM, I would rather spend the money on young stating pitching. The move I would make would be to keep Davis and trade Wieters. I doubt that will happen, Buck holds defense in such high regard.


I see what you are saying (and agree on his stardom soon becoming the highest on the team) but you have 5 more years of control left on Manny Machado still. Either way, it sure would be nice if the Orioles could lock em' all up
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #4 by Old Sneakers » November 6th, 2013, 1:52 pm

It is a good article and I am happy that you have a solid contact. Nice of him to give your opinion some mention. Members should absolutely read this.

However, when I play armchair GM, I think build as competitive team as possible every year. Luke Jackson's scenario of break the bank now and try to win in the next two years scares the hell out of me. I do not think the talent base is gushing near as much as it should be to take that approach.

For me, I let Weiters leave via free agency. It's clear he's going to get "Too Freaking Much!" because of the position he plays and who his agent is. Sadly not for performance. Also, though the article mentioned it. It didn't do the reality of just how tough a position Catcher is long term. Maybe Weiters has the prototypical build. On the other hand I have seen the man run. I think paying big money to resign Weiters would prove a mistake. His knees have seen a great deal of work since 2009 and the Mauer with power label didn't stand up to the wash. A fine player capable of teasing you into believing but still not worthy of that big deal long term contract. Lastly the team over-reacted in last year's draft at Catcher. Who knows if any of them work out or none? It's one of those things responsible teams do. Draft important hard to develop positions and let them grow. Just like pitching. The Orioles existed before Weiters and will do so after.

As for Davis, I am somewhat conflicted. He did everything and more last season. No one predicted he would be as good as he was at 1B. That to me is the guy you keep. It's a position the team struggled to find a solution to annually. And I do not expect him to duplicate his 2013 season again. Between 2012/13 would do just fine thanks. If you open up the check book, do it here.

On the flip side, if the team "Knows" there is no way it can afford Davis long term. Then deal him and re-build the farm system. I do not think we would end up returning to the 2007-2011 Orioles quagmire. But there would be a hurt. The way I see it, the team must decide to lock him up or deal him. No other way to put it.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #5 by thezeroes » November 6th, 2013, 5:09 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:For me, I let Weiters leave via free agency. It's clear he's going to get "Too Freaking Much!" because of the position he plays and who his agent is. Sadly not for performance.
.

Use him up and let him go. You could float him out there as a possible trade candidate and see what is offered in return to judge his worth on the market. Nothing says you have to deal him but floating his name is not an issue.

Old Sneakers wrote:As for Davis, I am somewhat conflicted. He did everything and more last season. No one predicted he would be as good as he was at 1B. That to me is the guy you keep. It's a position the team struggled to find a solution to annually.


The Orioles have two years of control with Chris Davis and have No One to replace him as far as power and fielding. I would also float him a trade candidate and if not a five for one deal of QUALITY then pass. The return should be one player of quality better than the Bedard deal.

To me, the core of the Orioles going forward is Adam Jones, Manny Machado, Chris Davis, and Chris Tillman. Time to see if Schoop, Urrutia and Gausman are part of this core.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #6 by Old Sneakers » November 6th, 2013, 5:23 pm

thezeroes wrote:To me, the core of the Orioles going forward is Adam Jones, Manny Machado, Chris Davis, and Chris Tillman. Time to see if Schoop, Urrutia and Gausman are part of this core.


Gausman:Certainly, it's just a matter of "when?"
Urrutia: I suspect our team's starting LF by mid-season 2014
Schoop: I'm not sure to be honest. Power is OK but a .350 OBP spraying line drives would be far better. People got excited far too early.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #7 by thezeroes » November 7th, 2013, 12:06 am

Jonathan Schoop is approaching 500 games in the Minors for Baltimore. I understand that he is still a very young man BUT how many more MiLB games would/should he play in before we are able to ascertain he is a keeper that needs to play at the MLB Level??
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #8 by Old Sneakers » November 7th, 2013, 7:41 am

thezeroes wrote:Jonathan Schoop is approaching 500 games in the Minors for Baltimore. I understand that he is still a very young man BUT how many more MiLB games would/should he play in before we are able to ascertain he is a keeper that needs to play at the MLB Level??


How many games? I don't know.

What I do know is that .225/.290/.350 batting line isn't good enough.

My point was last spring everyone was talking about how good Schoop was going to be. "Many people who are scouts think a lot of him" without ever quoting a named source. It was all hype.

He didn't have more than an average year last year and now he's looking ordinary at best. God willing he starts off on fire next spring and presses the issue himself.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #9 by Tucker Blair » November 7th, 2013, 9:00 am

Old Sneakers wrote:
How many games? I don't know.

What I do know is that .225/.290/.350 batting line isn't good enough.

My point was last spring everyone was talking about how good Schoop was going to be. "Many people who are scouts think a lot of him" without ever quoting a named source. It was all hype.

He didn't have more than an average year last year and now he's looking ordinary at best. God willing he starts off on fire next spring and presses the issue himself.

I wouldn't necessarily say it was hype. He really does have the raw tools and natural ability to become a star. Scouts are split on him though, at least from the ones I talked to last year. It is important to note that he has been pushed harder than anyone in this entire system and been the youngest person on almost every team he has played with. Now, the plate discipline must improve for him to take the next level; and it has not yet. But there isn't anyone in the entire system with plus power and plus bat speed like Schoop.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #10 by AlexConway » November 8th, 2013, 12:23 pm

TuckerBlair89 wrote:I wouldn't necessarily say it was hype. He really does have the raw tools and natural ability to become a star. Scouts are split on him though, at least from the ones I talked to last year. It is important to note that he has been pushed harder than anyone in this entire system and been the youngest person on almost every team he has played with. Now, the plate discipline must improve for him to take the next level; and it has not yet. But there isn't anyone in the entire system with plus power and plus bat speed like Schoop.


Tucker do you see Schoop having the range/arm long term to stick at 2B or will he have to change positions?
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #11 by Tucker Blair » November 8th, 2013, 12:43 pm

AlexConway wrote:
Tucker do you see Schoop having the range/arm long term to stick at 2B or will he have to change positions?


I think he can play 2B. I wouldn't call his range anything more than average though. He has improved with his reads off the bat, but the range is not going to win him any awards there. He has a terrific arm and could play a corner OF or 3B if he ever got too large and lost movement. But for how big he already is, he moves pretty well.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #12 by osforlife » November 8th, 2013, 6:50 pm

Keep Wieters for the next two years, and let him walk in free agency. He is going to get more (alot more.?) than he is worth. Replace him with Ohlman, one of our young wave of catchers, or a stopgap until somebody is ready. Trade Davis and restock the farm system; He won't duplicate what he did last year, he's about to get very expensive, and his value has never been higher. Think Bedard trade.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #13 by Old Sneakers » November 9th, 2013, 11:02 am

osforlife wrote:Think Bedard trade.



These are (reportedly) the 2013 mlb payrolls.
http://deadspin.com/2013-payrolls-and-salaries-for-every-mlb-team-462765594

Out of those Houston, Pittsburgh and Miami are the ones I think that might bite.

Houston could certainly use Davis.
Pittsburgh could certain use Davis and has a healthy farm system.
Miami has the need but little money for a big name player.
Colorado has great need but few prospects to move.
Minnesota might as well, but not the healthiest farm system.
NY Mets might also, I just don't believe they would spend.
TB Rays would help themselves and have the farm system. But they like saving money and building within.

We can talk trading Davis until we are blue in the face. However, hypothetical trades are just senseless. We aren't involved in winter meetings and last I heard. Guys on a message board don't have any say in it. Unless a team thinks a power bat 1B are what ensures a post season run it's all speculation.

Davis seems unlikely to hit 53 home runs again, but I wouldn't be shocked at all if he puts together five 35 HR seasons. Along with a healthy average and OBP.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #14 by osforlife » November 9th, 2013, 4:56 pm

I think production somewhere between his 2012 & 2013 years is a reasonable estimation. The problem is, if we extend him, we'll be paying him like 2013 Chris Davis, which I seriously doubt he will ever repeat. Staying away from long term contracts is the most efficient method anyway. Chris Davis is a very good player, and I would hate to see him go, I just like winning a little more than watching one superstar player on a losing team. Baltimore, in the near future, can either decide if they want to be a winner, or a ticket-seller/fan-smoocher. To be consistently good in a tough division as a mid payroll team, one needs a strong farm system that annually pumps talent to the majors. Baltimore doesn't have anything close to that. Think Cardinals. Think Rays.

Oh, and I'd say Pittsburgh is the most logical trading option. The Pirates don't have a strong first base option. Justin Morneau is a free agent, while Garret Jones and Gaby Sanchez are just platoon players. I could see a trade of:
Chris Davis ------ Garret Jones, Jameson Taillon, Gregory Polanco, Alex Dickerson, and Kyle McPherson.
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Re: Camden Depot: O's Must Extend Wieters and Davis

PostPost #15 by Old Sneakers » November 15th, 2013, 5:42 pm

osforlife wrote:I could see a trade of:
Chris Davis ------ Garret Jones, Jameson Taillon, Gregory Polanco, Alex Dickerson, and Kyle McPherson.


No chance would Pitt part with Taillon. I don't blame them. That farm system is far healthier than our own. I could see some of those names discussed. But Davis is unlikely to fetch a Bedard like deal. More likely he fetches a number of high end but unfinished products.

Pitt (or any other team) would be taking on a big contract to keep him. If not, it's not worth doing. The Orioles would have a largely rebuilt farm system and saving some money.

Truthfully, I look at the minor leagues the only legit way of building a team. The drafts from up until (likely 2011) were mostly misfires. That said I am perfectly OK with trading one, the other or both. If, it meant going from a bottom 5 farm system to a top 5 farm system.
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