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Mike Morse an Oriole

Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #16 by ofahn » September 8th, 2013, 7:48 pm

osforlife wrote:Obviously, Baltimore does not bunt regularly. It's actually debatable whether or not a bunt is a productive accomplishment early in the game. I think it's valuable when playing for a tie or win, but early in the game, a team might as well play for the big inning. So they don't bunt, but that being said, you say they don't manufacture runs well.

I'm not a big advocate of the bunt unless it's for a base hit. A sacrifice bunt is something almost everyone KNOWS is coming so it has a low probability of success. If the batter hits the ball to the right side of the infield they still have a chance of getting a hit or moving the runner. Hitters with that kind of skill set are usually good hit and runs guys. Notice how we don't seem to do that very much.

osforlife wrote:they are actually 4th in runs, 3rd in OPS, 26th in strikeouts, 12th in sac flies, and 3rd in OPS with RISP.

Yes, and we win games 10 to 3 and lose too many games 5 to 4.

osforlife wrote:A strikeout cannot hit a runner in, yes, but many contact outs don't hit the runner in either. I'd rather have a good hitter who strikes out(Mike Morse), than a bad hitter(Brian Roberts) who supposedly knows how to hit behind the runner, and it's not even in question honestly.

Right now we have six spots in our batting order with bad to horrible OBP; C, SS, CF, 2B, DH, and RF. Adam Jones can improve his OBP if he accepts he's hurting the team and focuses on fixing the problem. 2B and DH might improve with new players, and Markakis might figure out his problems. I don't see Hardy or Wieters making big improvements unless they have career years. If three of those positions have an OBP of .350 and everything else stays the same next year then we'll be OK. Four or more below that number and we're going to need to overcompensate some where else.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #17 by Seafordeagles » September 8th, 2013, 9:47 pm

Horrible OBP from SS, CF, C??????????????????????????

Wieters catcher #12 in obp, #1 home runs, #3 rbis

Hardy SS #9 in obp, #1 home runs, #2 rbis

Adam Jones CF #14 in obp, #1 home runs, #1 rbis

These are NOT HORRIBLE OBP STATS. These are all above major league average for their positions. The other stats are at the top or near the top.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #18 by ofahn » September 9th, 2013, 9:26 am

Seafordeagles wrote:These are NOT HORRIBLE OBP STATS. These are all above major league average for their positions.

...and IF we had had top three pitching it would be good enough; but we don't.

Until Tillman is the third best SP on the team we're going to need the extra run or so each game. You get that from high OBPs. Our current lineup has too many LOW OBPs to get to the next level.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #19 by Seafordeagles » September 9th, 2013, 12:20 pm

You clearly stated that catcher, centerfielder, and shortstop had "bad to horrible OBP". I'll keep my centerfielder who doesn't walk a lot but plays good defense who thumps the ball and drives in a lot of runs. I'll keep my shortstop who plays fantastic defense and hits for power because I can very vividly still remember Cesar Izturis, and Juan Castro as the preceding Orioles shortstops. I'll keep my catcher who plays great defense and will hit you between 20 and 30 home runs every year.

I agree with your assessment on 2nd base, right field, and DH.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #20 by ofahn » September 9th, 2013, 3:12 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:You clearly stated that catcher, centerfielder, and shortstop had "bad to horrible OBP". I'll keep my centerfielder who doesn't walk a lot but plays good defense who thumps the ball and drives in a lot of runs. I'll keep my shortstop who plays fantastic defense and hits for power because I can very vividly still remember Cesar Izturis, and Juan Castro as the preceding Orioles shortstops. I'll keep my catcher who plays great defense and will hit you between 20 and 30 home runs every year.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion; however, I see your approach as the reason we're NOT a 95 win team.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #21 by Seafordeagles » September 9th, 2013, 4:46 pm

I don't make any decisions for the Baltimore Orioles so it really doesn't matter what my approach is. I would hope the "minds that matter" for the Baltimore Orioles could care less what is being bandied about on a talk forum.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #22 by dan72 » September 9th, 2013, 6:13 pm

I can see both sides of this argument. First let me say that there is no question our pitching needs to improve if we want to be a team that goes to the playoffs every year. I feel strongly that you need to have a true ace at the top of the rotation. As demonstrated last year by the Yankees CC Sabathia that beat us in game 5. You also can't lead the world in blown saves either.....
I like seeing homeruns just as much as the next fan, problem is that to many homerun hitters in a lineup is not always good. You need to have guys that can hit and run, hit behind the runner, sac fly and bunt as needed. Thats why I cringed when there was talk of adding Adam Dunn to our line up. Forget about his salary, just look at his stats. Would he light up Eutaw street, sure but how many runners would he leave on base? To many is the answer.
There is a bit of truth to the moneyball theory. You need runs to win games, how do you get runs? you get on base any way possible. I'm sure Dan Duquette understands that, at the same time if all you can afford in free agency is misfit players than you are going to get flawed players.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #23 by Seafordeagles » September 9th, 2013, 6:32 pm

dan72 wrote:I like seeing homeruns just as much as the next fan, problem is that to many homerun hitters in a lineup is not always good. You need to have guys that can hit and run, hit behind the runner, sac fly and bunt as needed.


We have 4 power guys, and that's not too many in my opinion. There are positions that are power positions where you don't hit and run, bunting, etc. The Orioles power spots are 1st base, shortstop, catcher, and centerfield. The problem I have is what about the other 5 spots? These guys need to be playing small ball. Manny does a good job of hitting behind runners, etc. The other guys not so much.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #24 by Seafordeagles » September 9th, 2013, 6:34 pm

Here's a classic example of small ball by the Orioles in the 1st inning of tonights game:

Markakis doubled to center. Machado sacrificed, third baseman A.Rodriguez to first baseman Overbay, Markakis to third. A.Jones hit a sacrifice fly to center fielder Gardner, Markakis scored. C.Davis flied out to right fielder I.Suzuki.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #25 by ofahn » September 9th, 2013, 7:06 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Here's a classic example of small ball by the Orioles in the 1st inning of tonights game:

Markakis doubled to center. Machado sacrificed, third baseman A.Rodriguez to first baseman Overbay, Markakis to third. A.Jones hit a sacrifice fly to center fielder Gardner, Markakis scored. C.Davis flied out to right fielder I.Suzuki.

I was thinking of this thread when I was listening to that sequence of plays.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #26 by osforlife » September 10th, 2013, 6:07 pm

Yes, and we win games 10 to 3 and lose too many games 5 to 4.

Yeah, that's more of a combination of unluckiness, having a better offense, and having a worse bullpen.

Right now we have six spots in our batting order with bad to horrible OBP; C, SS, CF, 2B, DH, and RF. Adam Jones can improve his OBP if he accepts he's hurting the team and focuses on fixing the problem. 2B and DH might improve with new players, and Markakis might figure out his problems. I don't see Hardy or Wieters making big improvements unless they have career years. If three of those positions have an OBP of .350 and everything else stays the same next year then we'll be OK. Four or more below that number and we're going to need to overcompensate some where else.

I'm not sure what that has to do with strikeouts, but I'll agree I'd love it if the O's would improve in the OBP category. Unfortunately, Jones, Hardy, and Wieters have historically and repeatably shown they will not walk regularly. But, like I've said before, it does not matter how a team gets runs, only that they get them. Baltimore has ONE player that gets on base more than .335 of the time; and the O's are 4th in runs. Baltimore is definitely a power oriented team, and should stay one next year if all remaining players return. Out of Baltimore's 193 homeruns, 19 homeruns belong to impending free agents.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #27 by Rising O's » September 11th, 2013, 12:41 pm

Morse still proving he was not worth a prospect.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #28 by ofahn » September 16th, 2013, 6:08 pm

Rising O's wrote:Morse still proving he was not worth a prospect.

Just be glad we haven't had him all year.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #29 by ofahn » September 16th, 2013, 6:16 pm

osforlife wrote:I'd love it if the O's would improve in the OBP category. Unfortunately, Jones, Hardy, and Wieters have historically and repeatably shown they will not walk regularly.

The players in that group that are still on the team next season will need to take a hard look in the mirror. If they want to be a championship caliber team they're going to need to pull a "Rocky 3" and change their approach so that we can more consistently manufacture runs.

osforlife wrote:But, like I've said before, it does not matter how a team gets runs, only that they get them.

Not necessarily. I believe that we're going to score MORE runs this year, but we're going to win less games. We score them in blow outs and then get beat 3-2 or 4-3.

osforlife wrote:Baltimore has ONE player that gets on base more than .335 of the time; and the O's are 4th in runs.

See above.

osforlife wrote:Baltimore is definitely a power oriented team, and should stay one next year if all remaining players return. Out of Baltimore's 193 homeruns, 19 homeruns belong to impending free agents.

If we're PRIMARILY a power team next year we'll be lucky to get any further than the first round of the playoffs.
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Re: Mike Morse an Oriole

PostPost #30 by osforlife » September 20th, 2013, 7:11 pm

I understand Baltimore would be a much more efficient offensive team if some of their core players took steps forward in the OBP category, but this just doesn't regularly happen. Isolated On-Base Percentage (On Base Percentage - Batting Average) is a statistic I like to use, instead of Walk Percentage, just because it gives me a better idea of how much a hitter is actually getting on-base via anything other than a hit. IOBP rarely fluctuates, because even though an OBP may change, it could very well be likely to an increased, and lucky batting average. Some baseball fans may bring up Chris Davis as a prime example of how a hitter can take a step forward offensively, but this is an infrequent occasion. I think this advancement is mainly a combination of Davis being locked in, as if a hitter is hitting well, he will tend to not chase pitches outside the zone to get out of his slump, an increase in comfort, and slight maturation of him as a player. Baltimore will see if Davis is a legitimate monster talent, as his second half represents a lesser, but still respectable .249/.339/.517 batting line.

Hardy, Jones, and Wieters just will never be on base machines, which is fine, if they contribute in other factors of the game, which they do.

Like I've said before, a playoff team is a championship caliber team. The playoffs are such a small sample size. A wild card team can breeze through an obviously superior team, just because it's a five game set, not a month game set.

The part about the Orioles blowing teams out and barely losing close games, is again, actually a combination of unluckiness, having a better offense, and having a lesser bullpen; not the inability to manufacture runs.
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