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Impending Oriole Free Agents

Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #1 by osforlife » August 31st, 2013, 4:31 pm

The following list of Baltimore's players are free agents after the 2013 season:
1. Scott Feldman
2. Jason Hammel
3. Tsuyoshi Wada
4. Francisco Rodriguez
5. Brian Roberts
6. Nate McLouth
7. Wilson Betemit
8. Michael Morse
9. Alexi Casilla

For 2014, these impending free agents leave the Orioles without five starting pitchers, without seven relief pitchers, without a second baseman, without a left fielder, and without a DH.

Under Orioles control at least 2014, I see these players as possible fringe replacements:

Starting Pitcher: n/a
Relief Pitcher: Steve Johnson, Jairo Asencio,
Second Baseman: n/a
Left Fielder: n/a
Designated Hitter: Henry Urrutia, Danny Valencia

It's time to make a trade, or it could get ugly next year.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #2 by Rising O's » August 31st, 2013, 8:08 pm

I would add Jim Johnson because I have a hard time believing the Orioles will pay him 8 million after his 2013 performances.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #3 by osforlife » September 1st, 2013, 9:29 am

Rising O's wrote:I would add Jim Johnson because I have a hard time believing the Orioles will pay him 8 million after his 2013 performances.

Yes I think we could see Baltimore non-tendering Jim Johnson and/or Taylor Teagarden.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #4 by Seafordeagles » September 1st, 2013, 1:37 pm

Teagarden designated for assignment today.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #5 by osforlife » September 1st, 2013, 4:23 pm

I've made a list of the organization's catchers and where they should be placed. I couldn't really tell you how accurate it is. I see no reason to draft and/or acquire any catchers to add into the organization; there are plenty. First of all, I'd release Luis Martinez.

Baltimore has Matt Wieters, Chris Snyder, and Steve Clevenger.
Norfolk has Brian Ward, Taylor Teagarden, and Caleb Joseph.
Bowie has Michael Ohlman, Luis Exposito, and Zane Chavez.
Frederick has Wynston Sawyer, Allen de San Miguel, and Steel Russell.
Delmarva has Austin Wynns, Tanner Murphy, and Chase Weems.
Aberdeen has Chance Sisco, Alex Murphy, and Scott Kalush.
GCL Orioles have Jonah Heim, Jack Graham, and Brett Frantini.

Three catchers for every team is pretty extreme, but many of them could DH, work in the bullpen, and several will get injured.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #6 by dan72 » September 2nd, 2013, 10:00 pm

I think Schoop will compete for a starting 2b job. The Orioles like Morse and tried to get him last year. I can see the club make him a competitive offer. I think the rest of the players on your list are going going gone like a Davis homerun.
Some fans are in favor of offering BRob a 1 year contract, and I'm fine with that to so long as the money is good for the team. I'm talking 2million max.
I think the real question is, will the Orioles be able to extend Manny? You have to think that the front office wants to, but what would the deal look like? 8 years $120 Million, or am I off the mark???
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #7 by ofahn » September 3rd, 2013, 2:00 pm

osforlife wrote:For 2014, these impending free agents leave the Orioles without five starting pitchers, without seven relief pitchers, without a second baseman, without a left fielder, and without a DH.

Under Orioles control at least 2014, I see these players as possible fringe replacements:

Starting Pitcher: n/a
Relief Pitcher: Steve Johnson, Jairo Asencio,
Second Baseman: n/a
Left Fielder: n/a
Designated Hitter: Henry Urrutia, Danny Valencia

It's time to make a trade, or it could get ugly next year.

I thought this was well considered, insightful, and worth a Rep Point.

I definitely agree that we will have to make a trade and, frankly, I think we'll need to partially remake our roster. IMO the big problem is that we have a farm system that has been in a steady decline since the day we signed Kevin Gausman last year. Since then we have lost Dylan Bundy to an injury that may cause him to be converted to a closer and certainly will delay his entry into our starting rotation until AT LEAST late 2015, and probably 2016. We have traded away a high OBP hitter with plus base running skills and above average defensive skills that could have potentially been our LF next season. We have also traded away a legit LH SP prospect and, perhaps, our best hitting prospect. We have also traded away a first round draft pick and failed to spend the majority of our International Bonus Pool.

We HAVE added a solid HS SP that might be a part of the ML team by late 2016 and some solid college players that will have to fast track their way through our system to be considered top prospects. We have also added two Cuban OFers that MAY have ML careers ahead of them, but there's no guarantee of that.

In effect, there's less in the farm system NOW than there was the day that Gausman signed and all we have to show for that in the long term is Bud Norris; a #5 SP on a good team that may be better suited to be a lock down late inning reliever.

We will have an opening at 2B next year that might be filled by Ryan Flaherty with Jonathon Schoop as an outside possibility. Frankly, I would rather go with one of those two than another has been from the scrap heap.

It's possible that Gausman will step up and win the fifth spot in the rotation next spring, but if he doesn't and/or someone else falters or becomes injured there's nothing left in the farm system to fill a hole. Even IF Gausman does earn that spot we will STILL have a rotation that has a #2 SP that hasn't earned that title yet (Tillman), a #3 SP (Chen), a #4 SP (Gonzalez), and a #5 SP Norris. It's unrealistic to expect Gausman to be any better than a #3 SP next season.

Unless we substantially change our lineup to one that can manufacture runs we will have to rely on quality pitching and defense to be a playoff contender and we'll be short on the pitching.

Since we don't have the solutions to our problems in our farm system we'll have to look for them from other teams, but we'll have to trade from our ML roster. This can actually be a good thing since we have too many RH softball players and need to replace some of them with high OBP hitters.

I still think that the Cardinals will enter the winter very concerned about their SS position next year. If I'm right then they will be interested in JJ Hardy. I would love to keep his glove, but we can't afford his low OBP along with all of our other low OBP hitters. I accept that not everyone agrees with me when I opine that St. Louis would trade 2B Kolten Wong for Hardy, but I think the fact that Hardy is a PROVEN commodity that they could resign will out weigh the fact that Wong is a question mark. We might have to add something like International bonus money to do the deal, but we don't seem to use that anyway.

I have also read the speculation that we would non tender Jim Johnson this winter. IMO there's ZERO chance of that. Most of the league will see him as having been overused and will make their evaluation of his future performance on the fact that he seems to rebound when he gets a little bit of rest. I'm convinced that the Tigers have learned their lesson about starting the season without a proven closer and will consider trading 3B Nick Castellanos for him. Again, it's a proven commodity against a question mark and we might have to throw in someone like Tim Berry or Sebastian Vader to make that deal.

Now for the part that will make some readers' heads explode. Chris Davis would land us a mountain of prospects from a team like the Pirates. Of course I would love to keep him, but I seriously doubt that he'll resign for what we would be willing to pay him and I can't see wasting his last two years with us on mediocre .500 teams when we could convert him into a long term winner. The package should start with Jameson Taillon and include at least two of their top ten prospects and probably two more of their top twenty prospects. Again, we could include some International bonus money since we don't use it and the Pirates DO.

Then. package Taillon, Bundy, and three more prospects of the White Sox choice and trade for Chris Sale. This trade makes sense for both teams. Chicago gets the young talent they need to rebuild and we get the TOR guy we haven't had since Mike Mussina. We keep Gausman and, depending on the players the Sox choose, we might be able to keep Mike Wright.

These four trades would give a solid young team, but would virtually empty a farm system that wasn't in a position to provide much support in the near term anyway. That means we're going to have to get REALLY serious about signing International talent to reload the system and start looking for almost ML ready college talent in the draft. At least using this approach we won't become irrelevant after the 2015 season.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #8 by osforlife » September 3rd, 2013, 6:28 pm

I definitely agree that we will have to make a trade and, frankly, I think we'll need to partially remake our roster. IMO the big problem is that we have a farm system that has been in a steady decline since the day we signed Kevin Gausman last year. Since then we have lost Dylan Bundy to an injury that may cause him to be converted to a closer and certainly will delay his entry into our starting rotation until AT LEAST late 2015, and probably 2016. We have traded away a high OBP hitter with plus base running skills and above average defensive skills that could have potentially been our LF next season. We have also traded away a legit LH SP prospect and, perhaps, our best hitting prospect. We have also traded away a first round draft pick and failed to spend the majority of our International Bonus Pool.

We HAVE added a solid HS SP that might be a part of the ML team by late 2016 and some solid college players that will have to fast track their way through our system to be considered top prospects. We have also added two Cuban OFers that MAY have ML careers ahead of them, but there's no guarantee of that.

I agree DD has not helped but hurt his farm system over the course of the last year. The only trade this year that I'd probably do over would be the Scott Feldman trade. Both Strop and Arrieta have performed well in Chicago, but it was at the point where neither of them were going to succeed in Baltimore. Pedro and Jake both needed a change of scenery. It had to have been expected that they might have success with the Cubs, as they both had great arms. Feldman has been solid for Baltimore and it becomes all worth it for a playoff opportunity. Hopefully Clevenger provides some value as well; he is under control through 2018. I wouldn't have traded for Norris, Morse, or K-Rod, but that is just me and I'm pretty conservative.

Bud Norris; a #5 SP on a good team that may be better suited to be a lock down late inning reliever.

Norris would be better suited in a relief role, but so would practically any starting pitcher. Relievers are pitchers who aren't good enough to be starters. Norris is good enough to be a starter. His WHIP is ugly, and I don't think he has a pitch above average except for his fastball. If you could just get his walks down to about three per nine inning, he'd take the next step, and quiet all his reliever critics. Still, I would not make Bud Norris a reliever. I'm not disagreeing with you; he would be a much better relief pitcher, but he's good enough to continue starting.

It's possible that Gausman will step up and win the fifth spot in the rotation next spring, but if he doesn't and/or someone else falters or becomes injured there's nothing left in the farm system to fill a hole. Even IF Gausman does earn that spot we will STILL have a rotation that has a #2 SP that hasn't earned that title yet (Tillman), a #3 SP (Chen), a #4 SP (Gonzalez), and a #5 SP Norris. It's unrealistic to expect Gausman to be any better than a #3 SP next season.

IMO, Baltimore should sign two starting pitchers coming off down years or injury-plagued years, and re-sign Wada to a lesser deal than his option. With Tillman, Gonzalez, Chen, and Norris in place, and Wright and Gausman on the horizon, Baltimore should have a decent amount of depth.

I still think that the Cardinals will enter the winter very concerned about their SS position next year. If I'm right then they will be interested in JJ Hardy. I would love to keep his glove, but we can't afford his low OBP along with all of our other low OBP hitters. I accept that not everyone agrees with me when I opine that St. Louis would trade 2B Kolten Wong for Hardy, but I think the fact that Hardy is a PROVEN commodity that they could resign will out weigh the fact that Wong is a question mark. We might have to add something like International bonus money to do the deal, but we don't seem to use that anyway. I have also read the speculation that we would non tender Jim Johnson this winter. IMO there's ZERO chance of that. Most of the league will see him as having been overused and will make their evaluation of his future performance on the fact that he seems to rebound when he gets a little bit of rest. I'm convinced that the Tigers have learned their lesson about starting the season without a proven closer and will consider trading 3B Nick Castellanos for him. Again, it's a proven commodity against a question mark and we might have to throw in someone like Tim Berry or Sebastian Vader to make that deal.

Neither team will make either one of these trades. The Cardinals could always sign Johnny Peralta or Stephen Drew, who are both better offensive threats than Hardy. St. Louis has Carpenter, Beltran, Furcal, and Westbrook coming off their salary. Plus, even if they are unable to reach an agreement, 24 year old Greg Garcia is hitting well in AAA and plays shortstop. He has a lifetime .386 OBP in the minors. Wong can contribute now, and has a spot open for him. Buy Drew/Peralta or trade six years of Wong for one year of Hardy?
As for Castellanos, he very well may be the Tigers left fielder next year. Andy Dirks under-performed but will have a spot waiting for him when Torii Hunter leaves. Veras has been better than Johnson this year, but they could always re-sign Benoit without giving up Castellanos.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #9 by ofahn » September 3rd, 2013, 7:13 pm

osforlife wrote:The Cardinals could always sign Johnny Peralta

I think Peralta is in for a rough winter. After the Blue Jays experience with Melky Cabrera I think teams are going to wonder if they're paying for stats the player put up because they were juiced. The Cards are just a piece or two away from going all the way and you have to wonder if they would trust that opportunity with someone like Peralta.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #10 by osforlife » September 7th, 2013, 1:57 pm

ofahn wrote:I think Peralta is in for a rough winter. After the Blue Jays experience with Melky Cabrera I think teams are going to wonder if they're paying for stats the player put up because they were juiced. The Cards are just a piece or two away from going all the way and you have to wonder if they would trust that opportunity with someone like Peralta.

Possibly, but he Peralta has historically been a good player anyway; just slightly worse than Hardy. He couldn't have been on steroids this whole time. If I were the Cardinals GM, I'd attempt to sign Stephen Drew first, look around the trade market, laugh at Dan Duquette after offering JJ Hardy for Kolten Wong, and if no appealing deals come up, go in-house with either Ryan Jackson, Daniel Descalso, or Greg Garcia.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #11 by ofahn » September 7th, 2013, 2:31 pm

osforlife wrote:If I were the Cardinals GM, I'd attempt to sign Stephen Drew first, look around the trade market, laugh at Dan Duquette after offering JJ Hardy for Kolten Wong, and if no appealing deals come up, go in-house with either Ryan Jackson, Daniel Descalso, or Greg Garcia.

That was essentially the same decision that Dave Dombrowski made in Detroit last winter and it may cost them big time in the playoffs. I mean, do you really want to trust your WS hopes on Jose Veras?
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #12 by Old Sneakers » September 7th, 2013, 3:28 pm

Losing Feldman will prove disastrous. Losing Hammel will prove self defeating (I wasn't one of the ones banging the drum to resign him last year) as the team does not have SP depth like it thought it did at the beginning of this season.

As for 2B and LF issues once again this is an annual topic. Just like the team's SP. Why the front office or ownership rushes talent through the minors is beyond me. Unless DD is able to find talent cheap we are looking at 4 years of mediocrity and then will be talking about Manny Machado being a free agent and lengthy discussions on what is wrong with Kevin Gausman.

I think I just feel like ownership is still saying to itself "Hey won't it be fun to own a major league franchise and run it without any wisdom"
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #13 by osforlife » September 7th, 2013, 10:27 pm

ofahn wrote:That was essentially the same decision that Dave Dombrowski made in Detroit last winter and it may cost them big time in the playoffs. I mean, do you really want to trust your WS hopes on Jose Veras?

First of all, Benoit is their closer this year. He's undeniably better than Johnson.
Second of all, Jose Veras has been an extremely good relief pitcher this year. It's not like he's getting lucky, he's throwing more strikes; 3.1 BB/9 in 2013, and 5.4 BB/9 in 2012. If, he keeps his BB/9 to around 3 per nine innings, he's better than Johnson too.
Third of all, it's not like they have to go with Veras as their closer next year. The free agent market is full of relief pitchers. They could re-sign Benoit.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #14 by Seafordeagles » September 8th, 2013, 7:11 am

osforlife wrote:First of all, Benoit is their closer this year. He's undeniably better than Johnson.
Second of all, Jose Veras has been an extremely good relief pitcher this year. It's not like he's getting lucky, he's throwing more strikes; 3.1 BB/9 in 2013, and 5.4 BB/9 in 2012. If, he keeps his BB/9 to around 3 per nine innings, he's better than Johnson too.
Third of all, it's not like they have to go with Veras as their closer next year. The free agent market is full of relief pitchers. They could re-sign Benoit.


rep point to you.
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Re: Impending Oriole Free Agents

PostPost #15 by ofahn » September 8th, 2013, 7:31 pm

osforlife wrote:First of all, Benoit is their closer this year. He's undeniably better than Johnson.
Second of all, Jose Veras has been an extremely good relief pitcher this year. It's not like he's getting lucky, he's throwing more strikes; 3.1 BB/9 in 2013, and 5.4 BB/9 in 2012. If, he keeps his BB/9 to around 3 per nine innings, he's better than Johnson too.
Third of all, it's not like they have to go with Veras as their closer next year. The free agent market is full of relief pitchers. They could re-sign Benoit.

Let's revisit this after the WS. Unless Detroit is taking a champagne shower expect some serious second guessing.
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