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Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #1 by osforlife » August 17th, 2013, 9:47 am

The Orioles, have been scouting Abreu for more than a year and are intrigued by his "monster power," writes Roch Kubatko. He adds that the Orioles don't typically enter into bidding wars for international players like the one that is sure to break out over Abreu, but the O's continue to discuss him internally. Baltimore has had some smaller scale success on the Cuban front recently, as they've signed outfielders Dariel Alvarez and Henry Urrutia in the past year. Urrutia, for what it's worth, recently told MLB.com that he is one of Abreu's best friends from childhood, and the two talk regularly.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/08/r ... abreu.html

Maybe the Orioles are thinking about trading Chris Davis after all. If not, I'm not sure I want to enter a dollar war for a DH who may or may not hit a big league fastball. I'd like an extensive scouting report on him.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #2 by ofahn » August 17th, 2013, 11:37 am

Signing this guy actually makes so much sense that I'm convinced it won't happen.

We would be adding a solid hitter to an organization that has a talent deficit. It appears that his primary position is 1B, but that spot is CURRENTLY blocked. He could be signed as a DH and, IF Davis won't sign a reasonable extension, moved to 1B if Davis is traded for a bundle of talent to fill out the holes in the roster and restock the farm system.

osforlife smartly pointed out that a signing of this size needs to be scouted properly, but it appears that the team has done that; just like they did with Chen.

The reason I have doubts that the team would spend this kind of money is that ownership has kept the team on a strict budget. We're not even spending much of the lousy 3.5M we're allowed for International amateurs. To take on this guy we would almost certainly have to move contracts like Jim Johnson, JJ Hardy, Chris Davis, or some combination of those.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #3 by osforlife » August 17th, 2013, 8:45 pm

I think the Orioles are in a comfortable financial position. Baltimore has many free agents coming off the books this winter; Tsuyoshi Wada, Jason Hammel, Scott Feldman, Francisco Rodriguez, Alexi Casilla, Wilson Betemit, Nate McLouth, and Brian Roberts. Plus, I think Orioles could non-tender Jim Johnson, Taylor Teagarden, and Nolan Reimold. After all of that shedded salary, I think we could be healthy suitors in the free agent market. That doesn't mean, however, that Baltimore should or will be major suitors in the free agent market. All that being said, there could/will be problem over the next several years if the O's don't restock their farm system.

If the O's were to sign Abreu and Redsox were to sign Jacoby Ellsbury, Baltimore and Boston could be ideal trade partners. Without Ellsbury, Boston would like use an outfield of Daniel Nava LF, Jackie Bradley CF, Shane Victorino RF, and Jon Gomes as the 4th outfielder. However, with Ellsbury, the Redsox have a logjam on the corners with Jackie Bradley, Daniel Nava, Jonny Gomes, and Shane Victorino. Now, Boston could use Mike Carp or Daniel Nava at first base, but they aren't exactly the kind of first baseman on a first place club would want after losing Jarrod Saltalamaccia, Mike Napoli, and Stephen Drew. The Orioles would have two first basemen, and the Redsox would have a semi-need of one.

Chris Davis, Xavier Avery, & Zach Britton for Jackie Bradley, Garin Cecchini, Bryce Brentz, Brandon Workman, Ryan Kalish & Henry Owens? Give or Take
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #4 by ofahn » August 19th, 2013, 10:07 am

osforlife wrote:I think the Orioles are in a comfortable financial position.

...and have been for a long time. The problem is that OWNERSHIP has authorized only a limited ML payroll and GROSSLY underfunded scouting and player development. Unless we trade one or more of our veterans RIGHT NOW to file holes and re stock the farm system we're going to be a perennial door mat again after the 2015 season.

osforlife wrote:Baltimore has many free agents coming off the books this winter; Tsuyoshi Wada, Jason Hammel, Scott Feldman, Francisco Rodriguez, Alexi Casilla, Wilson Betemit, Nate McLouth, and Brian Roberts.

I could see Roberts signed for a modest base and incentives contract to be the primary DH, Wada signed to the same kind of contract, and McLouth given a qualified offer to get the draft pick. By trading L J Hoes McLouth becomes a much more important potential backup plan.

osforlife wrote:I think Orioles could non-tender Jim Johnson, Taylor Teagarden, and Nolan Reimold.

Johnson will still have trade value. Most of the league will see him as being overused and evaluate him on his performance when he wasn't tired.

IMO he'll be offered a contract, BUT will not be part of the team next year.

osforlife wrote:After all of that shedded salary, I think we could be healthy suitors in the free agent market. That doesn't mean, however, that Baltimore should or will be major suitors in the free agent market.

I would be fine with almost any signing that doesn't cost us a draft pick and doesn't include contract years beyond the age thirty three or so. That being said, here's the list of "free" agents available this winter. The list is dated February 29th so some of the players like Chase Utley are now off the market. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/02/2 ... gents.html It doesn't print a pretty picture.

osforlife wrote:All that being said, there could/will be problem over the next several years if the O's don't restock their farm system.

I've posted that so many times my fingers could type it on auto pilot.



osforlife wrote:Baltimore and Boston could be ideal trade partners. Without Ellsbury, Boston would like use an outfield of Daniel Nava LF, Jackie Bradley CF, Shane Victorino RF, and Jon Gomes as the 4th outfielder. However, with Ellsbury, the Redsox have a logjam on the corners with Jackie Bradley, Daniel Nava, Jonny Gomes, and Shane Victorino. Now, Boston could use Mike Carp or Daniel Nava at first base, but they aren't exactly the kind of first baseman on a first place club would want after losing Jarrod Saltalamaccia, Mike Napoli, and Stephen Drew. The Orioles would have two first basemen, and the Redsox would have a semi-need of one.

Chris Davis, Xavier Avery, & Zach Britton for Jackie Bradley, Garin Cecchini, Bryce Brentz, Brandon Workman, Ryan Kalish & Henry Owens? Give or Take

It's great thinking outside of the box, but I seriously doubt that DD or Cherington would be willing to exchange that much young talent to a team they see as a serious threat over the next few years. If some of player traded to one team flop and some of the players going the other way make the difference in getting to the WS it would make the GM staying home in October look REALLY bad.

I could see us making a big trade, but I would expect it to be with an NL team. Just think what Chris Davis would mean to the Pirates lineup. If he were in it RIGHT NOW they would probably be the WS favorite.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #5 by osforlife » August 19th, 2013, 10:57 am

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Baltimore is in a comfortable financial position right now, but won't be unless the O's restock their farm system. The O's could either do that, or pretty much guarantee we won't be successful down the road. I'm not sure about Johnson; he's already overpaid and he'll get a raise this winter. After watching all the dumb trades for relievers over the years, Baltimore could get a top 100 prospect easily for Johnson. If they can't non-tender him. If McLouth were to decline Baltimore's qualifying offer, I'd look at David Murphy. He's having a terrible year, but his BABIP sits at .227 when his career BABIP is .303. He's a prime bounce back candidate that could easily put up a 15/15 season, average defense, and a .280/.340/.440. As for second basemen, I'd look at Kelly Johnson and Omar Infante over Brian Roberts. As for potential trade partners for Chris Davis, I pegged Boston, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Texas.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #6 by ofahn » August 19th, 2013, 1:14 pm

osforlife wrote:I'd look at Kelly Johnson and Omar Infante over Brian Roberts.

Please take into consideration that I am NOT suggesting Brian Roberts as the 2B next year. I would prefer to trade for a ML ready (or near ready) 2B and allow that guy, Schoop, and Flaherty to compete for the position in ST.

As tight-fisted as this ownership is I doubt that the money for an Infante or Johnson would be authorized when Schoop MIGHT be ready. I don't necessarily agree with that approach, but that's the economic reality we face.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #7 by osforlife » August 19th, 2013, 2:40 pm

ofahn wrote:Please take into consideration that I am NOT suggesting Brian Roberts as the 2B next year. I would prefer to trade for a ML ready (or near ready) 2B and allow that guy, Schoop, and Flaherty to compete for the position in ST.

As tight-fisted as this ownership is I doubt that the money for an Infante or Johnson would be authorized when Schoop MIGHT be ready. I don't necessarily agree with that approach, but that's the economic reality we face.

Brian Roberts at DH would be even worse than Brian Roberts at 2B. Johnson and Infante can play other positions than second. So, when Schoop becomes ready, they can spot various positions and DH.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #8 by ofahn » August 19th, 2013, 8:53 pm

osforlife wrote:Brian Roberts at DH would be even worse than Brian Roberts at 2B

Why do you believe that? Roberts is regaining his batting eye and has the third best RBI/AB ratio on the team. He's the kind of hitter that will work the count and do whatever is necessary to move the runner. We need MORE players like that, not less.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #9 by osforlife » August 20th, 2013, 5:25 pm

ofahn wrote:Why do you believe that? Roberts is regaining his batting eye and has the third best RBI/AB ratio on the team. He's the kind of hitter that will work the count and do whatever is necessary to move the runner. We need MORE players like that, not less.

I wouldn't refer to anything related to RBI's. It means nothing. One cannot put runners on base for him. It's a team statistic that some fans use to judge individuals. In 2011, Matt Wieters hit .321 with RISP. In all the other years, he has never gotten higher than .254. It's luck.

Brian Roberts will be 36 next year, doesn't hit for power, doesn't steal bases, doesn't stay healthy, doesn't provide versatility, and if he's a DH, won't provide value of defense.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #10 by dan72 » August 23rd, 2013, 8:36 am

I agree with some points and disagree with others.
I would like to see Roberts and Schoop compete for the starting 2b job in 2014, resign Roberts to a 1 or 2 year deal with incentives. I don't like the idea of Roberts as a full time DH. Yes he is a tough out, he takes pitches, runs up pitch counts, but he has no power. A DH needs to be a power threat.

I agree that we need to trade a veteran for prosepcts. I have always felt that Wieters makes the most sense since his signability is tough to unlikely. Restocking the farm system with a priority on pitching should be our #1 priority. Any free agent aquired during the off season needs to be a disciplined hitter.
No more all or nothing hitters.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #11 by Seafordeagles » August 23rd, 2013, 11:19 am

dan72 wrote:Any free agent aquired during the off season needs to be a disciplined hitter.
No more all or nothing hitters.


Yeah Chris Davis and Adam Jones, you know those "all or nothing hitters", haven't been very productive.....................
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #12 by dan72 » August 23rd, 2013, 5:37 pm

I love home runs just as much as the next guy, and Davis hitting for average has been a nice surprise. All I am saying is that you can not have an entire lineup full of guys that strikeout 150 times. Nothing more frustrating than a strikeout with risp..... additionally I was at the Tampa game Tuesday night when they played the shift on wieters, there was no defensive player on the leftside of the field. They were giving us a bunt single and we did not take it.
Just saying, take what the defense gives....
Trust me im happy to have Davis and Jones, im not complaining about them. Baltimore is 27th in mlb in walks. Not a good stat.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #13 by ofahn » August 24th, 2013, 9:27 am

osforlife wrote:I wouldn't refer to anything related to RBI's. It means nothing.

First, I want to say that I value your baseball instincts and consider you one of the better baseball minds on this forum. That being said sometimes we can't seem to agree that water is wet. This may be one of those times.

IMO runs are the most important stat in the game and RBIs account for at least 98% of all runs scored. I just don't see that as nothing.

osforlife wrote:One cannot put runners on base for him.

True, but the ability to consistently bring home - by ANY means available - the runners that ARE on base when one comes to the plate determines whether you're a softball team like we are or a legit WS contender like the Braves, or Cards, or A's, or Rays.

osforlife wrote:It's luck.

I disagree. IMO it's a definitive and critical skill. The ability - or willingness - to control the game with situational hitting is critical to manufacturing runs; and THAT along with good pitching and defense wins championships.

osforlife wrote:Brian Roberts will be 36 next year, doesn't hit for power, doesn't steal bases, doesn't stay healthy, doesn't provide versatility, and if he's a DH, won't provide value of defense.

...and is probably the most professional hitter on this team. If Jones and Machado can emulate Roberts' plate discipline they will both almost certainly be HOFers.

osforlife wrote:Brian Roberts at DH would be even worse than Brian Roberts at 2B.

We don't need another all or nothing swinger at DH. We have TOO many of those already. What we need is someone that will work the count and do what needs to be done in that situation. Roberts is that kind of guy and we could use a lot more like him.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #14 by ofahn » August 24th, 2013, 9:39 am

dan72 wrote:resign Roberts to a 1 or 2 year deal with incentives.

I'd be more comfortable with one year than two.

dan72 wrote:I don't like the idea of Roberts as a full time DH. Yes he is a tough out, he takes pitches, runs up pitch counts, but he has no power. A DH needs to be a power threat.

Why does a DH need to be a power threat? The most important stat is runs and why does HOW they're scored make a difference?

Besides, we have a power hitter in CF, which is normally a position that has Brian Roberts like stats.
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Re: Orioles Interested In Jose Dariel Abreu

PostPost #15 by ofahn » August 24th, 2013, 9:52 am

Seafordeagles wrote:
Yeah Chris Davis and Adam Jones, you know those "all or nothing hitters", haven't been very productive.....................

Really? Do you honestly believe that the best argument against an intelligent observation is to claim that TWO out of NINE spots in the batting order are productive? I mean, even IF Jones were productive in his spot in the order, two out of nine would still be batting just above the "Mendoza Line".

Chris Davis has made himself into an almost complete hitter and would be a plus player in either the Three or Four Hole. Jones, on the other hand, has not yet become a complete hitter and should really be in the Six Hole until he does. Yes, he is productive for his position, but he's cost us games hitting in the Four Hole because he is not consistent with his plate discipline and/or his willingness to go the other way or give himself up to move the runner or bring him home from 3B with less than two outs.

That being said IMO Jones is a talented and intelligent player that has made major improvements in his game. He's just hasn't become the impact player that he's capable of nor the on the field leader he wants to be. If he ever puts his desire to win before his ego he could put up Frank Robinson years; both on the field and in the clubhouse.
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