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Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #76 by ofahn » August 11th, 2013, 2:33 pm

Rising O's wrote:Jim Johnson should be a free agent. And the way he has performed I don't see the Orioles offering arbitration in an attempt to secure draft pick compensation.

FYI - we control him through next season.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #77 by ofahn » August 11th, 2013, 2:35 pm

Rising O's wrote:
Hard to solely blame the owners when local and state governments are falling all over themselves to give millionaires free stadiums. if you don't have to budget the costs of building and operating a stadium, it makes ridiculous contracts that much easier to offer.

I agree with everything you say, BUT just because owners are getting a free ride doesn't mean anyone is forcing them to offer INSANE contracts to has-beens.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #78 by ofahn » August 11th, 2013, 2:37 pm

dan72 wrote:Just curious who can replace JJ Hardy? If the answer is Manny Machado then my next question is who can replace Manny Machado? I agree that Jim Johnson is expendable.

If we traded Johnson to the Tigers for 3B Nick Castellanos then the problem solves itself.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #79 by ofahn » August 11th, 2013, 2:46 pm

osforlife wrote:Castellanos has only played the outfield in the minors. But with Avisail Garcia traded away, Andy Dirks struggling, while Torii Hunter and Victor Martinez are free agents after next year, Detroit might have a plan to use Castellanos.

Castellanos was exclusively a 3B until last year when the Tigers moved Cabrera to 3B and, consequently, Castellanos to the OF. IMO he's an average 3B now with the upside of being above average. I think that Bobby Dickerson could get him to that level.

This kid is still 21 and has a career minor league OBA of .362 and the power will come. At this point he profiles as an almost identical type of hitter as Machado.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #80 by osforlife » August 11th, 2013, 10:32 pm

ofahn wrote:Castellanos was exclusively a 3B until last year when the Tigers moved Cabrera to 3B and, consequently, Castellanos to the OF. IMO he's an average 3B now with the upside of being above average. I think that Bobby Dickerson could get him to that level.

This kid is still 21 and has a career minor league OBA of .362 and the power will come. At this point he profiles as an almost identical type of hitter as Machado.

I don't doubt that Castellanos is and will be a great hitter. I wanted to trade for him, so the O's would have a third basemen when Machado transitioned to shortstop. I knew Castellanos was a third basemen, but the Tigers have only used him in the outfield this year. This might change their plans of how they view Nick. Before he proved himself as an outfielder, he was blocked at third by Miguel Cabrera. But now, as an outfielder, Torii Hunter is a free agent after next season, Andy Dirks has struggled this year, and Avisail Garcia has been traded to the Whitesox. He almost definitely has a future with the Tigers as a corner outfielder. I don't think they'll want to trade him, especially for one year of a closer, who may not even be an upgrade over Jose Veras.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #81 by osforlife » August 11th, 2013, 10:40 pm

Rising O's wrote:2nd is easier to find than 3rd. But we still don't know about Schoop since the Orioles continue to insist he play SS. He has not been very good at 2nd.

Shortstop should be out of the question. JJ Hardy is the Orioles shortstop right now, and Manny Machado will be the Orioles shortstop when JJ Hardy leaves. It is either second or third, and he had hardly any experience at third.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #82 by osforlife » August 11th, 2013, 10:54 pm

ofahn wrote:IMO the Cardinals' willingness to trade Wong for one controllable year of Hardy would increase significantly if they don't make the WS this year. Hardy would solidify that IF and St. Louis has enough quality hitters that they can afford a softball swinger like JJ.

Wong would be a legit candidate to win the 2B job in ST next year and that would leave Schoop, Flaherty, and a winter pick up to compete for the 3B job. Of course, if we also traded Jim Johnson to the Tigers for Castellanos then three quarters of our IF would be set for a long time.

Even though the Cards would be giving up six years of Wong for one year of Hardy this would still be a solid trade for them. Their budget would allow them to extend him another couple of years and, if they can't come to an agreement, they could afford to make him a qualified offer and get a 1st Round draft pick back after next season.

I've already settled Castellanos on one of my previous posts, so it is on to Wong.

Like I've said, the Cardinals may not want to give up Kolten Wong. Yes, they have two capable second basemen already in the majors, and not capable shortstops, but they may want to try Descalso at short, Wong at second, and Carpenter as their super utility. There is no guarantee Hardy would sign an extension with them. There is also no guarantee the Cardinals would extend a qualifying offer to Hardy, when Descalso is the better offensive threat. Sure, Hardy is superior defensively, but is he really $10MM+ more valuable? No. Plus, the Cardinals could always pursue Johnny Peralta or Stephen Drew. You say they have financial flexiiblty. Why give up six years of a major league ready player, when they could just buy a player of the same capability?
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #83 by Old Sneakers » August 12th, 2013, 3:26 am

Im sorry fellas. Any notion of Kolten Wong being traded for JJ Hardy is out of this world insane. That is a young talented player a team can build around. No chance is this going to happen. It would take a 3:1 trade to get him and this team does not have the talent to move.

Honestly, I think the most loaded minor league system in baseball belongs to the Diamondbacks. They "might" move a few prospects for something enticing but it's nothing the Orioles have under team control.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #84 by osforlife » August 12th, 2013, 11:07 am

Old Sneakers wrote:Im sorry fellas. Any notion of Kolten Wong being traded for JJ Hardy is out of this world insane. That is a young talented player a team can build around. No chance is this going to happen. It would take a 3:1 trade to get him and this team does not have the talent to move.

I agree. Why trade six years of a major league ready middle infielder for one year of a middle infielder, when they have an internal, cheaper, and better offensive threat in Daniel Descalso who could potentially play short. If they don't think Daniel is a shortstop, they could just buy Johnny Peralta or Stephen Drew without giving up Wong.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #85 by Rising O's » August 13th, 2013, 10:57 pm

Can't see the Orioles offering arbitration to Johnson. Not going to paying him 7 million plus to perform like this.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #86 by Old Sneakers » August 13th, 2013, 11:31 pm

Rising O's wrote:Can't see the Orioles offering arbitration to Johnson. Not going to paying him 7 million plus to perform like this.


I keep thinking "who closes next year" and the only real answer I come up with is Tommy Hunter. I don't think he would be an all-star but would be solid in that role. Thoughts/opinions?
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #87 by osforlife » August 14th, 2013, 1:23 pm

Virtually anybody can close, as long as that pitcher was effective in innings 6/7/8. The MLB Network's analysts like Mitch Williams, who say closing is a different animal, and not every set-up man can close, sound like idiots when they try to defend this theory. Brian Kenny proves it all the time on MLB NOW. If one is effective in the innings leading up to the ninth inning, if given a proper oppurtunity, can pitch effecively in the 9th inning. Edward Mujica, Jason Grilli, Mark Melancon, Koji Uehara, Grant Balfour, Sergio Romo, and Bobby Parnell are just the examples off the top of my head of set-up men that pitch effectively in the closer's role. Darren O'Day could close, Tommy Hunter could close, Francisco Rodriguez could close. If the ninth inning is so important, why is the best pitcher in the bullpen(Darren O'Day) not closing? Jim Johnson wasn't even the best relief pitcher for the O's last year in his "WOW JIM JOHNSON IS SO GOOD! KEEP HIM AT ALL COSTS! HE SAVED 51 GAMES! HE'S SO GOOD!" year. Major League Baseball needs to realize that relief pitchers' performances fluctuate more than any other position by far. If a relief pitcher goes and has a great year, especially a lucky one like what Jim Johnson had, and give him a huge raise to keep him. A relief pitcher could have a 3.00 ERA and then the next year have 5.00 ERA and MLB Network's analysts would try to figure out what is wrong. NO, that's just baseball. Bullpen pitchers pitch so few innings, it is so easy to see one's numbers jump around. It's amazing some of them keep their numbers as consistent as they are. I would have traded Jim Johnson for anything in the off-season. Anything we could get, within reason. Relief pitchers pitch 60 innings a year, one can't expect 1. those pitchers to repeat what they did a year ago and 2. to get a big return in a trade. THEY PITCH 60 INNINGS THEY AREN'T THAT IMPORTANT. Forget the save. It's was stupid to begin with. We have three stud relief pitchers in O'Day, Hunter, and Rodriguez. The three aces in the pen. Keep them fresh, use them in different situations. People always say Buck Showalter is so good at managing a bullpen, let's actually see if he is. I could manage the bullpen just as well. It's not hard to call to the bullpen and say O'Day is pitching the 8th inning. Johnson the 9th. Ortiz & Saltalamaccia are coming up next inning, warm up Patton. If they is runners on second and third with one out in the 5th inning in a one run game, why can't I use O'day? It could be the biggest jam of the game, and if it isn't, I have Hunter and K'Rod to back me up. There's a right handed hitter sandwiched between two left handed hitters to start the 9th inning? Bring in Matusz and let him get the all important save. It's a tie game in the 8th inning? Bring in Johnson to keep our aces fresh. It's time to rethink the bullpen. Jim Johnson is the 4th of 5th best reliever in this bullpen, it's time to use him like it.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #88 by osforlife » August 14th, 2013, 8:48 pm

Yet another blown save. This is ridiculous.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #89 by Rising O's » August 14th, 2013, 9:35 pm

Jim Johnson lost it last year in the playoffs. This team falls short in almost every category but defense and home runs.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #90 by dan72 » August 14th, 2013, 9:41 pm

Tough situation for Bud Norris to be in tonight, would have been nice to have another arm in the bullpen tonight, instead we have 3 secondbaseman at our disposal!!! To bad none of them can pitch......
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