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Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #61 by Seafordeagles » August 5th, 2013, 9:42 pm

osforlife wrote:"Though it remains to be seen if he'll stay at short." Like I said, will he be able to stick at short?


So what's wrong with 2nd base?
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #62 by osforlife » August 6th, 2013, 8:52 am

Seafordeagles wrote:So what's wrong with 2nd base?

Jurickson Profar doesn't know if his future will be at second or short, but that is simply a question of where the major league roster will fit him. With Marin, it is actually a question of whether he will be able to play shortstop as he gets older/bigger.

A prospect without a position is hardly a solid prospect at all. If Marin will not stick at shortstop, they need to move him to second and get him experience there. Find out what the best position for him is, and put him there. Maybe it is short, maybe it is not.

I'm under the perspective that shortstops are more valuable than second basemen. Two qualified shortstops this year have OPS' above .800. One used steroids and the other, Jean Segura, hasn't been particularly great since April/May. If he continues his downward trend, he will be below .800 soon. But it is not really my place to predict now. The average shortstop OPS is .653. There is only one qualified second baseman whose OPS is lower than .653. Plus, shortstop is the hardest position to play in the infield so it is naturally more valuable.

Don't get me wrong, Marin is a decent prospect whose future could possibly be bright. I hope he goes on to be a starting major league middle infielder. The chances just aren't very good. Our farm system needs to be replenished, and quick. If we were to trade Davis, or maybe Wieters, our minor league system would get the boost it needs for the Orioles to stay competitive for years. Our position player prospect list was barren to begin with, and two of our three best were traded away, destroying what little depth we had.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #63 by Rising O's » August 6th, 2013, 10:54 pm

What is going on with A Roid and Pujols will force a lowering of the market. Not to mention Teixeira and Fielder. Davis has shown no injuries or the overdeveloped muscles one would point to in alarm. In a new era, he is the type of offensive force that can carry a team for months. I feel the Orioles have enough pitching to win with Norris, Tillman, Gonzalez and Chen now and next year.

I like Machado, Davis, Jones heart of the line-up for the next 6+ vs Jones/Machado/???.

As far as choosing a place? I say a contending team with Davis. In two years the Orioles are +10k fans per game. Follow-up last year with another playoff run and that should only increase for 2014.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #64 by osforlife » August 7th, 2013, 10:24 am

The contracts of Jason Hammel, Scott Feldman, Francisco Rodriguez, Alexi Casilla, Wilson Betemit, Brian Roberts, Nate McLouth, and Tsuyoshi Wada will expire a the end of the season. Although that is a lot of money, many Orioles will also be getting raises including Adam Jones, Jim Johnson, Matt Wieters, Wei Yen Chen, CHRIS DAVIS, Bud Norris, Darren O'Day, Tommy Hunter, Brian Matusz, Troy Patton, Steve Pearce, and Taylor Teagarden(non-tender). But more importantly, this team will be left with many holes to fill. There will be questions as to who will DH, play left field, fill the fifth spot in the rotation, play second base, even fill out the bullpen. The Orioles will have to go out of the organization to plug practically every one of these. Then, we'll have to do the same thing the next year, and the next year, and the next year until we have a solid farm system that develops players.
Moving too many prospects in a trade is "the quickest way to head in the wrong direction," Pirates GM Neal Huntington opined.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #65 by ofahn » August 8th, 2013, 9:15 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
So what's wrong with 2nd base?

I don't think the choice is SS or 2B, I think it's between SS and 3B and Marin doesn't project to have the bat to be a ML regular at 3B. If he wants to be a ML IMO he needs to do WHATEVER it takes - ballet, yoga, modern dance, martial arts - to maintain enough athletic flexibility to stay at SS.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #66 by ofahn » August 8th, 2013, 9:32 pm

Rising O's wrote:What is going on with A Roid and Pujols will force a lowering of the market. Not to mention Teixeira and Fielder.

I wish that were true; however, IMO the increasing revenues of local TV contracts will have more influence on player contracts than common sense or history.

Teams NEVER learn and it only takes ONE moronic owner to set a new standard for stupid money. It's been about twenty years since Kevin Brown signed a seven year 105M deal that turned into a train wreck; not to mention Mike Hampton's disaster. Did that stop the Giant's from giving Barry Zito seven years? Nope. Boston gave Dice K a six year contract straight out of Japan. Train wreck.

OK, you say "but they were pitchers". Miguel Tejada and Vladimir Guerrero signed SIX year contracts and neither of them ended well. Ken Griffey Jr's nine year contract was considered a "bargain", but it was really a train wreck. Carl Crawford's contract turned into a POS almost immediately after the ink dried.

None of this is hidden away by a sealed court order, it's all public record yet teams - and their ego maniacal owners - manage to make THE VERY SAME IDIOTIC MISTAKES over and over again. Unless Chris Davis is a COMPLETE idiot - and he sure doesn't give that impression - he knows there's an owner out there that is just dying to throw stupid money at him.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #67 by ofahn » August 8th, 2013, 9:45 pm

osforlife wrote:The contracts of Jason Hammel, Scott Feldman, Francisco Rodriguez, Alexi Casilla, Wilson Betemit, Brian Roberts, Nate McLouth, and Tsuyoshi Wada will expire a the end of the season. Although that is a lot of money, many Orioles will also be getting raises including Adam Jones, Jim Johnson, Matt Wieters, Wei Yen Chen, CHRIS DAVIS, Bud Norris, Darren O'Day, Tommy Hunter, Brian Matusz, Troy Patton, Steve Pearce, and Taylor Teagarden(non-tender). But more importantly, this team will be left with many holes to fill. There will be questions as to who will DH, play left field, fill the fifth spot in the rotation, play second base, even fill out the bullpen. The Orioles will have to go out of the organization to plug practically every one of these. Then, we'll have to do the same thing the next year, and the next year, and the next year until we have a solid farm system that develops players.

JJ Hardy and Jim Johnson are expendable. That doesn't mean they're not good players, it means they can be replaced by others within our organization. If Jim Johnson can get us Castellanos from the Tigers and Hardy can get us Kolten Wong from the Cards then we can continue to improve on the fly.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #68 by osforlife » August 9th, 2013, 10:20 am

ofahn wrote:JJ Hardy and Jim Johnson are expendable. That doesn't mean they're not good players, it means they can be replaced by others within our organization. If Jim Johnson can get us Castellanos from the Tigers and Hardy can get us Kolten Wong from the Cards then we can continue to improve on the fly.

I think Wong and Castellanos are interesting cases. Their respective teams might not want to trade either of them. With the Cardinals, it appears Oscar Tavares will replace Carlos Beltran, not Allen Craig or Matt Carpenter. I doubt Pete Kozma is in the Cardinals' plans next year. He is a younger Brendan Ryan who isn't as good with the glove. Daniel Descalso has hit well for a middle infielder, the Red Birds might want to try him at short. Then there's Matt Carpenter, but St. Louis might want to use him as their everyday super utility. C Yadier Molina, 1B Allen Craig, 2B Kolten Wong, 3B David Freese, SS Daniel Descalso, LF Matt Holliday, CF Jon Jay, RF Oscar Tavares with Carpenter playing everyday at various positions. For the Tigers, Castellanos has only played the outfield in the minors. But with Avisail Garcia traded away, Andy Dirks struggling, while Torii Hunter and Victor Martinez are free agents after next year, Detroit might have a plan to use Castellanos.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #69 by Rising O's » August 9th, 2013, 10:15 pm

Jim Johnson should be a free agent. And the way he has performed I don't see the Orioles offering arbitration in an attempt to secure draft pick compensation.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #70 by Rising O's » August 9th, 2013, 10:17 pm

ofahn wrote:I wish that were true; however, IMO the increasing revenues of local TV contracts will have more influence on player contracts than common sense or history.

Teams NEVER learn and it only takes ONE moronic owner to set a new standard for stupid money. It's been about twenty years since Kevin Brown signed a seven year 105M deal that turned into a train wreck; not to mention Mike Hampton's disaster. Did that stop the Giant's from giving Barry Zito seven years? Nope. Boston gave Dice K a six year contract straight out of Japan. Train wreck.

OK, you say "but they were pitchers". Miguel Tejada and Vladimir Guerrero signed SIX year contracts and neither of them ended well. Ken Griffey Jr's nine year contract was considered a "bargain", but it was really a train wreck. Carl Crawford's contract turned into a POS almost immediately after the ink dried.

None of this is hidden away by a sealed court order, it's all public record yet teams - and their ego maniacal owners - manage to make THE VERY SAME IDIOTIC MISTAKES over and over again. Unless Chris Davis is a COMPLETE idiot - and he sure doesn't give that impression - he knows there's an owner out there that is just dying to throw stupid money at him.


Hard to solely blame the owners when local and state governments are falling all over themselves to give millionaires free stadiums. if you don't have to budget the costs of building and operating a stadium, it makes ridiculous contracts that much easier to offer.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #71 by dan72 » August 10th, 2013, 6:19 am

Just curious who can replace JJ Hardy? If the answer is Manny Machado then my next question is who can replace Manny Machado? I agree that Jim Johnson is expendable.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #72 by Rising O's » August 10th, 2013, 1:43 pm

Not a pressing issue since Hardy is not a free agent until 2015. One would hope Schoop would be ready to play 3rd by then. If the Orioles would/could settle on a position for him.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #73 by osforlife » August 11th, 2013, 1:31 pm

Rising O's wrote:Not a pressing issue since Hardy is not a free agent until 2015. One would hope Schoop would be ready to play 3rd by then. If the Orioles would/could settle on a position for him.

If Schoop plays third, who plays second?
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #74 by Rising O's » August 11th, 2013, 2:15 pm

2nd is easier to find than 3rd. But we still don't know about Schoop since the Orioles continue to insist he play SS. He has not been very good at 2nd.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #75 by ofahn » August 11th, 2013, 2:30 pm

osforlife wrote:I doubt Pete Kozma is in the Cardinals' plans next year. He is a younger Brendan Ryan who isn't as good with the glove. Daniel Descalso has hit well for a middle infielder, the Red Birds might want to try him at short.

IMO the Cardinals' willingness to trade Wong for one controllable year of Hardy would increase significantly if they don't make the WS this year. Hardy would solidify that IF and St. Louis has enough quality hitters that they can afford a softball swinger like JJ.

Wong would be a legit candidate to win the 2B job in ST next year and that would leave Schoop, Flaherty, and a winter pick up to compete for the 3B job. Of course, if we also traded Jim Johnson to the Tigers for Castellanos then three quarters of our IF would be set for a long time.

Even though the Cards would be giving up six years of Wong for one year of Hardy this would still be a solid trade for them. Their budget would allow them to extend him another couple of years and, if they can't come to an agreement, they could afford to make him a qualified offer and get a 1st Round draft pick back after next season.
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