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Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #46 by Seafordeagles » August 3rd, 2013, 4:11 pm

osforlife wrote:Out of the list of Rays’ pitchers who have been drafted and developed by the Rays in recent years, David Price has been the only exception.


Isn't that what I said?
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #47 by Seafordeagles » August 3rd, 2013, 4:36 pm

ofahn wrote:Thank you for picking the #1 draft choice as the exception that makes the rule.


I guess one out of three overall #1 draft picks of the Tampa Bay Rays isn't too shabby.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #48 by ofahn » August 3rd, 2013, 4:46 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
I guess one out of three overall #1 draft picks of the Tampa Bay Rays isn't too shabby.

That's better than our track record of #4 picks.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #49 by osforlife » August 3rd, 2013, 8:25 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
Isn't that what I said?

Yes I guess so. He is one out of the many that sped threw their system.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #50 by Seafordeagles » August 3rd, 2013, 8:48 pm

osforlife wrote:Yes I guess so. He is one out of the many that sped threw their system.



You said this statement earlier:
"osforlife wrote:
I would absolutely love if the Orioles had each pitcher spend a year, or very close to it, at every affiliate."


Then someone else said this:
"You know, like the Rays do; and they seem to know how to develop pitching."

Now you're saying "one out of the many that sped threw their system".

Every time I make a statement, like about David Price I get raked over the coals. I think it's time for me to lay low for a while, no matter what I try to post I get called out by the same person every time.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #51 by osforlife » August 3rd, 2013, 9:32 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:

You said this statement earlier:
"osforlife wrote:
I would absolutely love if the Orioles had each pitcher spend a year, or very close to it, at every affiliate."


Then someone else said this:
"You know, like the Rays do; and they seem to know how to develop pitching."

Now you're saying "one out of the many that sped threw their system".

Every time I make a statement, like about David Price I get raked over the coals. I think it's time for me to lay low for a while, no matter what I try to post I get called out by the same person every time.

Oh no that is completely my bad. I mixed up my words. I meant to say something like "Price is the one Ray that sped through their system while all others were carefully, and patiently brought up.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #52 by Rising O's » August 4th, 2013, 12:31 pm

ofahn wrote:Just a reminder that it takes BOTH sides to work out an extension.

Davis has made himself into a complete hitter and above average defender at 1B. IMO that puts him a step above Prince Fielder who got a a NINE year contract at about 25M per year. He knows what the Yankees have paid for that kind of talent and what the Red Sox might pay for it. Why would he sign a reasonable extension here when some other team would almost certainly offer him STUPID money?


None of us know what Davis may be looking for so its not worth too much discussion. The fact that fans want to trade him to me is a last resort. We have no one like him and likely never will for the rest of the decade. He plays a position that is easier on the body so there is a lot less risk in that respect. You do what you can to get him signed because as I said, his offensive production is not something we are going to have again for quite some time otherwise.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #53 by Old Sneakers » August 4th, 2013, 8:58 pm

Rising O's wrote:
None of us know what Davis may be looking for so its not worth too much discussion.


Disagree on this one big time. Davis is going to be worth a ton of money. He's likely also to be worth a nice payload of prospects. Not suggesting 5:1 but certainly 3:1 in quality prospects.

We didn't have money to resign Joe Saunders... Then we certainly do not have the money to resign Davis. A deal is an outstanding option for this club.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #54 by osforlife » August 5th, 2013, 8:52 am

Rising O's wrote:
None of us know what Davis may be looking for so its not worth too much discussion. The fact that fans want to trade him to me is a last resort. We have no one like him and likely never will for the rest of the decade. He plays a position that is easier on the body so there is a lot less risk in that respect. You do what you can to get him signed because as I said, his offensive production is not something we are going to have again for quite some time otherwise.

Would you rather have a last place team with Davis, or a contending team without Davis? Trading away prospects is the best way to go in the wrong direction in a hurry. The Orioles have ONE impact prospect that may or may not be able to take over second base in the near future. After Schoop, they have nothing. There's Josh Hart, but is he really anything more than another Xavier Avery? Marin and Walker have serious questions. It is good to see Ohlman hitting well, he'll move up to Bowie next year while Joseph and Ward go to Norfolk. The Orioles didn't have a good minor league system for position players in the first place, and DD decided to trade our second best hitter to the Brewers for a reliever, and swapped our third best hitter for Bud Norris.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #55 by Seafordeagles » August 5th, 2013, 11:45 am

osforlife wrote:Marin and Walker have serious questions.


I've heard nothing but rave reports about these 2. Walker's already climbed 2 levels this season. Are the "serious questions" yours or are they from a scout?
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #56 by osforlife » August 5th, 2013, 5:41 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
I've heard nothing but rave reports about these 2. Walker's already climbed 2 levels this season. Are the "serious questions" yours or are they from a scout?

Well they are ranked 12th and 13th in a bad farm system. I'm looking for impact bats, as in players that could play everyday in the majors. There were questions as to whether LJ Hoes and Nick Delmonico could play everyday in the majors, and they were considered better prospects than Walker/Marin. As for Walker, does he have enough power to stick at first? Is his defense good enough to play or does he have to DH? With Marin, will he stick at short? If his power never improves, he should improve his approach at the plate. You can basically find all my questions at MLB: http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/mlb/pr ... l#list=bal
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #57 by Seafordeagles » August 5th, 2013, 6:26 pm

osforlife wrote:Well they are ranked 12th and 13th in a bad farm system. I'm looking for impact bats, as in players that could play everyday in the majors. There were questions as to whether LJ Hoes and Nick Delmonico could play everyday in the majors, and they were considered better prospects than Walker/Marin. As for Walker, does he have enough power to stick at first? Is his defense good enough to play or does he have to DH? With Marin, will he stick at short? If his power never improves, he should improve his approach at the plate. You can basically find all my questions at MLB: http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/mlb/pr ... l#list=bal


Well I just read both reports and you are being so much more critical than mayo, who says this about Walker to go against what you say.

"While he doesn't have light-tower power, he does have the ability to drive the ball."

As for Marin:

"A solid defender with good speed, Marin has a decent feel for the game and good instincts, though it remains to be seen if he'll stay at short. He had a solid summer debut that included a brief stop with full-season Delmarva. If he can improve his approach at the plate and on-base skills, he could be a future top-of-the-order type hitter."

Mayo sits in his air conditioned office and does these rating which means absolutely nothing. Even though you are being a lot more critical than he is.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #58 by Seafordeagles » August 5th, 2013, 6:28 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:


Well I just read both reports and you are being so much more critical than mayo, who says this about Walker to go against what you say.

"While he doesn't have light-tower power, he does have the ability to drive the ball."

As for Marin:

"A solid defender with good speed, Marin has a decent feel for the game and good instincts, though it remains to be seen if he'll stay at short. He had a solid summer debut that included a brief stop with full-season Delmarva. If he can improve his approach at the plate and on-base skills, he could be a future top-of-the-order type hitter."

Mayo sits in his air conditioned office and does these rating which means absolutely nothing. Even though you are being a lot more critical than he is.


Incidentally Marin's report was from the 2012 season.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #59 by ofahn » August 5th, 2013, 7:15 pm

Both Walker and Marin are Class C prospects. In the ABC Scale a C prospect is one where evaluators believe the player could be a ML regular above replacement value IF they siginificantly improve certain aspects of their game. Hoes' last rating was as a C+. The odds of a C prospect becoming a ML regular is about 20%, give or take 10% based on the quality of the development system they come through.

The big problem with our farm system is that the ML roster was so bankrupt of talent that the FO has been forced to promote talent as fast as it is remotely available to fill holes or replace AAAA players. That has left us with ONE Class A prospect - Gausman, two Class B prospects - Schoop and Rodriguez, and about a dozen Class C+ C and C- prospects. The 2013 draft class really can't be evaluated until they get a full season under their belt. Dylan Bundy will need to be re evaluated once he can pitch again.

What this means in real terms is that, unless we have a significant infusion of quality young talent before the 2014 season, our team almost certainly peaked LAST season and will be a sub .500 team after the 2015 season. With that in mind we almost certainly have to trade some of the players on our current 25 Man Roster this winter to continue to be relevant.

As a comparison the Red Sox have about 10 Class A and B prospects in their system. That's the competition we face going forward.
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Re: Orioles Trade Hoes To Astros For Bud Norris

PostPost #60 by osforlife » August 5th, 2013, 8:42 pm

Like ofahn said, these guys are decent prospects, they just don't have very good chances at all at becoming major league regulars. I could see Walker becoming a Travis Ishikawa type and Marin becoming a Jamey Carroll type. We need impact bats, not C prospects.

I don't believe I was being critical. First base is a power position. "While he doesn't have light-tower power, he does have the ability to drive the ball". Unless you're a wiz with the glove, it's hard to stay at the best offensive position with doubles power.

"Though it remains to be seen if he'll stay at short." Like I said, will he be able to stick at short?
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