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This is not a playoff team.

Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #31 by Old Sneakers » July 16th, 2013, 5:25 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:One hole could be fixed by bringing up Urritia. It looks like he can't prove much else in the minors.

Sad to say but I think it's time to move Reimold for a prospect before the end of the trade deadline. Nolan is taking up a roster spot and as reported yesterday on 105.7 The Fan his defense is getting worse rather than better.

That could easily replace the "DH Hole".


Reimold is not going to get you much more than a limited bullpen arm. When I say limited I mean very limited. He really should not have been counted on to get much playing time as it is.

Kevin Gausmann belongs back in the minors building up innings and shoring up his command/control. Keeping him in the pen past the All Star break is not doing this team any favors long term. On that note, I would almost suggest a below average arm from the minors working out of the pen.

As for SP I've said prior that we should have made a bigger push sooner for Joe Saunders being resigned but thought the asking price was too high. Sadly, I think unless the team is willing to spend to resign Feldman we find ourselves back in all too familiar territory next season. Certainly we could look to take a flier on someone not commanding much salary on a one year deal. Like this year however, it always seems to have mixed results at best.

As for run production/manufacturing runs, well your right a DH doesn't have to hit 20HR but they absolutely must be an on base machine capable of popping up deep to advance a runner. This is sort of why I still hold out hope that L.J. Hoes is given a shot at meaningful playing time at some point. The guy can get on base and is at least a decent base runner. He may get that shot too. Nate McLouth is going to get more money somewhere. The good news is that with Brian Roberts salary coming off the board we might have a little more money to play with. I just don't want that to include draft choices.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #32 by Seafordeagles » July 16th, 2013, 6:29 pm

Old Sneakers wrote:Kevin Gausmann belongs back in the minors building up innings and shoring up his command/control. Keeping him in the pen past the All Star break is not doing this team any favors long term. On that note, I would almost suggest a below average arm from the minors working out of the pen.


Kevin is in the minors now. He doesn't have to go back there he's been there since July 10th.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #33 by A_K » July 16th, 2013, 7:31 pm

ofahn wrote:
If "pursue a playoff spot aggressively" means trading away an important part of the future in order to stick a finger or two in one of the many holes our team has then I can't agree with you.


It means making basic calculations with the understanding that today is more valuable than tomorrow and that championship banners fly forever. Should you trade an elite, top ten in the sport prospect for a one year rental? It's hard to imagine how the one-year rental could be worth the long-term loss, even considering the fact that the present is more important (significantly) than the future, and that championships are permanent. But does it mean trading a marginal prospect like Jonathan Schoop or Eduardo Rodriguez or virtually any player in our system besides Gausman and Bundy for players that will upgrade your 25-man roster? Maybe the answer is still no, depending on the trade, but it's something any team that's anywhere near the playoffs should absolutely consider.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #34 by osforlife » July 16th, 2013, 8:20 pm

I'm not sold on Feldman yet. Two of his three starts have been decent, but I won't feel confident about him until I see the same results in his next three starts.

I'm already confident in him. Look at his peripherals from last year to this year; they are VERY similar. No, he doesn't have the best stuff, but his peripherals suggest he is something along the line of a #3 pitcher.
2012: 3.81 FIP, 3.87 xFIP, 3.95 SIERA, 1.02 HR/9, 6.99 SO/9, 2.33 BB/9
2013: 3.74 FIP, 3.77 xFIP, 3.85 SIERA, 0.9 HR/9, 6.73 SO/9, 2.22 BB/9
He is not flashy, but solid and basically in line with Gonzalez, Tillman, and Chen's quality.

Asencio is not the answer

So easy to give up on him? His career numbers in AAA are marvelous; he should be given a chance to prove himself. He was doing the best out of the relievers in AAA, so theoretically he should do the best in the majors out of all those relievers.

I don't understand why Gausman isn't starting. The team made a big deal about him being ready when he wasn't and when he finally started to get positive results they sent him back to Norfolk.

Kevin Gausman should have never been in the majors in the first place. I'm not saying he wasn't the best option or anything, I'm just saying, hardly any pitcher ever is ready to pitch in the major leagues after 70 innings in the minors. He got rocked in the majors, has gotten rocked in AAA and deserves to be anywhere but Baltimore, whether that's Norfolk or Bowie. Sure, he could pitch well out of the bullpen, but it is more vital for him to get starts in the minors than pitch erratically out of the bullpen.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #35 by osforlife » July 16th, 2013, 8:32 pm

-Reimold is more valuable to the Orioles playing than to be traded away for a limited prospect. I think the same concept applies to the the Orioles trading away Luis Ayala IMO.

-I'm hoping LJ Hoes gets a chance to play LF next year. You guys know Hoes has 50 walks to 51 strikeouts. That and his .405 OBP are both impressive.

-I said all offseason that the O's should acquired a starter on a short term deal. Not many starters on one year deals have worked out, but at the time there was no way of knowing that at the time.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #36 by Seafordeagles » July 16th, 2013, 9:57 pm

osforlife wrote:-Reimold is more valuable to the Orioles playing than to be traded away for a limited prospect. I think the same concept applies to the the Orioles trading away Luis Ayala IMO.


It comes down to Urritia or Reimold. I've seen what Reimold has been doing. He is not the answer. Urritia may not be either but I believe he would be better than Reimold.

By the way, all prospects are limited until they can prove major league worthy. A major league general manager stated (and his name escapes me now because he said this a few years ago) "prospects equal suspects".
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #37 by osforlife » July 17th, 2013, 8:08 am

Seafordeagles wrote:
It comes down to Urritia or Reimold. I've seen what Reimold has been doing. He is not the answer. Urritia may not be either but I believe he would be better than Reimold.

By the way, all prospects are limited until they can prove major league worthy. A major league general manager stated (and his name escapes me now because he said this a few years ago) "prospects equal suspects".

Yes, but there is definitely a difference between a real upside prospect, than cash considerations or a organizational depth PTBNL. Reimold's career numbers suggest he will do better than what he is currently producing. I'd give him August 1st to step it up.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #38 by ofahn » July 17th, 2013, 10:10 am

osforlife wrote:I'd give him August 1st to step it up.

At this point I have serious doubts as to whether he'll ever be the player we saw flashes of, but I think August 1st is reasonable and Urrutia might be ready by then.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #39 by ofahn » July 18th, 2013, 11:59 am

Old Sneakers wrote:I think unless the team is willing to spend to resign Feldman we find ourselves back in all too familiar territory next season. Certainly we could look to take a flier on someone not commanding much salary on a one year deal. Like this year however, it always seems to have mixed results at best.

Almost any "free" agent SP that we would be interested in would want a contract that contained more years than they were worth just to come here, and would almost certainly cost us a draft pick. SPs that are willing to accept a one year contract to rebuild their value almost certainly don't want to pitch half of their games in Camden Yards or against the AL East.

About the ONLY way we're going to be able to add quality pitching to this organization at a cost we can afford is to draft it, find it through superior scouting, or trade for it. I was hoping that the team would gamble on/invest in Ervin Santana last fall, but the Royals got their first because their ownership was willing to put up the money. Santana was good bet to bounce back and provide at least #2 SP level performance, and by making him a qualified offer we would have received a first round draft choice if he signed somewhere else. Considering the barren state of our farm system that pick would have been GOLD.

Old Sneakers wrote:As for run production/manufacturing runs, well your right a DH doesn't have to hit 20HR but they absolutely must be an on base machine capable of popping up deep to advance a runner.

There's no question that we could stand an improvement at DH, but even getting everything you've specified isn't going to improve the fact that three of our best four RH hitters are all or nothing guys that have poor OBAs and can't seem to play small ball to manufacture runs.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #40 by ofahn » July 18th, 2013, 12:05 pm

A_K wrote:does it mean trading a marginal prospect like Jonathan Schoop or Eduardo Rodriguez


I think we value Schoop and Rodriguez differently. Both of them are playing at an above average level despite being at least a year younger than other top prospects at their level and several years younger than the average player at AA.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #41 by osforlife » July 18th, 2013, 8:39 pm

ofahn wrote:There's no question that we could stand an improvement at DH, but even getting everything you've specified isn't going to improve the fact that three of our best four RH hitters are all or nothing guys that have poor OBAs and can't seem to play small ball to manufacture runs.

Who cares? Machado and Jones aren't perfect hitters, but that doesn't mean they aren't very very productive hitters. The Orioles are very good at scoring runs, and Machado and Jones are two of the three main offensive threats on the team. That says something. They are both one of the best players at their respective positions. As for Hardy, he is far from a weak link as SS and is one of the better SS in the American League. Every team, and practically every player is flawed. The Orioles are lucky to not have many flaws and have top players at multiple positions.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #42 by A_K » July 19th, 2013, 5:57 pm

ofahn wrote:
I think we value Schoop and Rodriguez differently. Both of them are playing at an above average level despite being at least a year younger than other top prospects at their level and several years younger than the average player at AA.


That doesn't mean they're more than marginal prospects. Every team has a handful of players playing above average in AA despite being younger than league average. I like Schoop. I like Rodriguez. I follow them closely and frequently cite them as successes of MacPhail's low cost international strategy. But by any objective standard, they're marginal prospects.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #43 by ofahn » July 19th, 2013, 6:13 pm

A_K wrote:
That doesn't mean they're more than marginal prospects. Every team has a handful of players playing above average in AA despite being younger than league average. I like Schoop. I like Rodriguez. I follow them closely and frequently cite them as successes of MacPhail's low cost international strategy. But by any objective standard, they're marginal prospects.

I guess we're just going to have agree to disagree about their value; however, assuming you're right about this, the fact they were two of our top five prospects at the beginning of the season shows the poor state of our farm system and the reason why we should be willing to trade several desirable veterans in the next week so we can add talent for the future.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #44 by mikezpen » July 20th, 2013, 10:18 am

I don't know what veterans we can trade w/o hurting the team's chances this year. I'd be willing to let Hammel go and hope that Britton or Johnson can do the job.But I don't think they'll do that because he's been good for us in the past and I feel Buck is disinclined to throw an inexperienced pitcher into the pressures of a pennant race. He's got his lineup and starting rotation set now, and I doubt of he'd disrupt either w/a marginal trade.

Reimold's no longer tradable, at least this year.

I'm surprised they got as much as they did for Canzler, but I think that w/b the biggie for this season.
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Re: This is not a playoff team.

PostPost #45 by ofahn » July 24th, 2013, 5:56 pm

Championship teams DO NOT leave the tying run on 3B with NO outs in the ninth and not score.
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