Welcome to the Orioles Nation Forums! Like most online communities, you must register to post on our message board. However, posting is free--it always will be--and registration is a simple process. Become part of the growing Orioles Nation community and register now!

Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #16 by birdwatcher55 » July 6th, 2013, 9:03 pm

Do I sense a Gausman for closer thread is coming??? 8-)
birdwatcher55
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1624
Joined: November 2011
Reputation Score: 11

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #17 by ofahn » July 6th, 2013, 9:19 pm

I still think that we would be better served with a closer by committee approach, and I think that Hammel should be part of that group.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4402
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #18 by dan72 » July 7th, 2013, 2:02 am

so you want Gausman to start again? that is what you said earlier in the week. I feel Gausman is best out of the pen for the remainder of this year, 1. to rest the other relievers arms and 2. to not over expose him to the league while he is still working on a third pitch. Once through the lineup is enough for Gausman.
dan72
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 368
Joined: July 2011
Reputation Score: 5

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #19 by birdwatcher55 » July 7th, 2013, 11:32 am

I would leave Gausman where is he is right now and perhaps bump him to an eighth inning role and Hunter closing if JJ's struggles continue past 7/31 8-)
birdwatcher55
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1624
Joined: November 2011
Reputation Score: 11

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #20 by LA Detective » July 7th, 2013, 5:28 pm

There are a lot of innings in that arm over the last couple of years. Plus due to a lot of close games early in the season we had to use him more often than liked. I think he is more tired than anything. Thus, causing him to get our of sync with his delivery. I would say spread some of the innings between the others and maybe he can come back from the break fresh. I think he will be fine but I think the days of 3 in a row or 4 or 5 times a week are not the best going forward.
LA Detective
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 293
Joined: July 2011
Reputation Score: 14

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #21 by ofahn » July 8th, 2013, 12:10 pm

LA Detective wrote:There are a lot of innings in that arm over the last couple of years. Plus due to a lot of close games early in the season we had to use him more often than liked. I think he is more tired than anything. Thus, causing him to get our of sync with his delivery. I would say spread some of the innings between the others and maybe he can come back from the break fresh. I think he will be fine but I think the days of 3 in a row or 4 or 5 times a week are not the best going forward.

I would prefer us to start using the hot hand with Johnson being given the majority of save situations. I'm tired of seeing Johnson brought in JUST because it's a save situation. If O'Day or Hunter are lights out in the eighth and the match ups for them look good in the ninth then let them finish the game.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4402
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #22 by birdwatcher55 » July 8th, 2013, 2:17 pm

JJ looked good Sunday but yeah definitey I would try and lighten his workload for sure. Maybe time to give Hunter a save or two opportunity this week.. 8-)
birdwatcher55
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1624
Joined: November 2011
Reputation Score: 11

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #23 by dan72 » August 14th, 2013, 9:35 pm

Want to get a pulse check here... Anyone still feel like Jim Johnson should be our closer? He has single handedly blown so many games, that had he just converted half of his blown saves the Orioles would be in first place.
Never have been in favor of a pitch to contact guy as a closer.
Who takes over the role? Krod? He has been hit hard in his few outtings as an Oriole. Hunter, he gives up home runs to frequently......
I cant help but feel that when the Orioles miss the playoffs, we will look back at the season and the weak link will have clearly been the closer. I don't place to much blame on Buck, I am a beleiver that players play and coaches coach. At some point Buck has got to make the change.
dan72
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 368
Joined: July 2011
Reputation Score: 5

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #24 by osforlife » August 14th, 2013, 9:50 pm

Darren O'day has been the Orioles best relief pitcher since the beginning of 2012 and nobody seems to realize it. But, why do we need a closer? Why does each pitcher have to have a specific role? Why can't we have three bullpen aces, that are used in a variety of roles?
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #25 by Seafordeagles » August 14th, 2013, 10:16 pm

dan72 wrote:I don't place to much blame on Buck, I am a beleiver that players play and coaches coach. At some point Buck has got to make the change.


Here's my feeling about how Buck handles the pitchers. When Pedro Strop struggled he all but banished him to mop up duty. when Jim Johnson struggles he keeps putting out there in "crucial" situations. Why banish Strop but continue to stick with Johnson?

Why blame the hitters on Tuesday night and never say anything about Jim Johnson's failures. Buck needs to do what is best for the Baltimore Orioles and fix the problem. Right now he is not doing that. In today's interview after the game he praised Jim Johnson for only allowing one run to score off of him.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #26 by LA Detective » August 15th, 2013, 1:32 pm

It is a shame JJ takes so much heat. I will never forget what John Smoltz said last year about pitchers who tire. That they find other ways to use their body to throw with the same velocity. This causes mechanics to get out of wack leading to lack of control and crisp pitches.


Look back at pitchers who have saved 50 games. There is almost always a drop off due to over work. And JJ pitched alot of innings in 2011 too.


The beginning of this year he had 12 saves in a short time. There was a time he was on pace for over 100 innings.


Buck has had almost no choice but to use him as much as he has. I really believe this is his problem. The problem is that unlike starters who can work on their stuff between starts, JJ cant. It is a shame because he has been a true warrior taking the ball when asked. He should be respected and thanked for that not crucified.


The blame here is on the starters and the early failures of Strop to keep a game from getting to JJ. That is the best thing about KRod...Our BP should be able to protect a 4 or 5 run lead without it getting to JJ.


I believe that Hunter, ODay and JJ are tired. Hunter is on pace for almost 100 innings.


Again, the blame is the starters. So much went wrong here this year with Hammel and so many of them hurt or in the case of Arrieta and Britton, not stepping up. It looked like we had so much depth in Spring Training.


We cant seem to get Gonzo or Chen over 85 pitches. Tilman is great but too many times its 105 pitches and 6 innings.


That being said, maybe JJ should be moved to a different role for a bit. But only so he can get his breath and work back to his stuff. And thanks JJ for getting us this far. Then pitch with math ups. Hunter and Oday are great against RHP...KRod seems to get both..Matusz against LHP. I like set roles but we are at a point where we need a shake up. We will also have to go with 8 relievers until Sept 1. If the Pen doesnt get fresh we are done for sure.
LA Detective
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 293
Joined: July 2011
Reputation Score: 14

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #27 by osforlife » August 15th, 2013, 2:59 pm

It just bugs me when closer's recieve $12MM a year, when set-up men recieve $3MM a year, when they practically provide the same value. In 2012, fangraphs pegs JJ as 1.2 WAR. Fangraphs pegged O'Day at 1.4. JJ got 51 saves, while O'Day got zero. Outs are outs, and O'Day was and is still better at producing them. I really don't think there is anything wrong with Johnson. 2013 is the kind of pitcher he is. He is a ERA in the 3.00-3.75, not in the 2.25-3.00. He had a BABIP of .251 last year. He wasn't going to keep that up. He got lucky, and he doesn't strike out enough people to support a high BABIP.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #28 by Seafordeagles » August 15th, 2013, 3:52 pm

To me the issue is that Buck was defending Jim Johnson on MASN last night after the game, and calling out the hitters the night before. It's like Buck said when he came to the Orioles that he was holding players accountable. Obviously he doesn't treat all players the same way.

I like Jim Johnson as a player but Johnson is struggling, the whole world knows that. It's time for another alternative and perhaps Jim can pick up the pieces before it's too late for this season.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 696
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #29 by osforlife » August 15th, 2013, 6:03 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:To me the issue is that Buck was defending Jim Johnson on MASN last night after the game, and calling out the hitters the night before. It's like Buck said when he came to the Orioles that he was holding players accountable. Obviously he doesn't treat all players the same way.

I like Jim Johnson as a player but Johnson is struggling, the whole world knows that. It's time for another alternative and perhaps Jim can pick up the pieces before it's too late for this season.

I agree I think he falls in love with players; Johnson, Flaherty, Teagarden, etc.
User avatar
osforlife
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 1628
Joined: October 2011
Location: Southern Maryland
Reputation Score: 59

Re: Pull the Plug on Jim Johnson

PostPost #30 by ofahn » August 17th, 2013, 5:32 pm

osforlife wrote:why do we need a closer?

I've made this same point so many times that it could probably be my epitaph.

It's extremely rare that one pitcher can be consistently effective in that role for an entire season; and that becomes even more certain when that pitcher is overused in situations where this pitcher is brought into a game when the team has a three run lead despite the fact he pitched the day before.

I don't understand why we simply don't go with the hot hand and/or allow a pitcher that isn't gassed to finish a game when it appears he's being dominant. If we would have followed that one simple rule this season we probably would have won at least six or seven more games so far. Frankly, if you make enough unnecessary pitching changes at least one of them will not turn out well.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4402
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85


PreviousNext

Return to Baltimore Orioles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

cron