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How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #16 by osforlife » July 3rd, 2013, 4:38 pm

The Bedard trade, Uehara trade, and Hardy trade turned out to be magnificent steals. The Tejada deal could have gone better. The Ramon Hernandez didn't really work out. The Mark Reynolds trade is probably about equal. But, no clear loss trades were made under Macphail. He just lacked everywhere else; failed free agent signings, failed international presence, failed extensions. Macphail built the foundation, Duquette finished the job.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #17 by dan72 » July 3rd, 2013, 5:59 pm

Lets not forget that Andy Mcfailure allowed our minor league coaches/ player development staff to royally ruin some very high draft picks. AMF also rushed some of our young players along, therefore setting their development back years. Lets also remember that he allowed Joe Jordan to make some rather poor draft choices....... I know that drafting baseball players is a tough business, but when you look back at the all-star caliber players we passed over on our path to drafting second rate talent......makes you wonder what could have been.

So, I give AMF credit for the Bedard trade and the Uehara trade,, other than that, I dont have many positive thing to say about him.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #18 by osforlife » July 3rd, 2013, 6:07 pm

dan72 wrote:So, I give AMF credit for the Bedard trade and the Uehara trade,, other than that, I dont have many positive thing to say about him.

JJ Hardy for Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobsen?
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #19 by Old Sneakers » July 3rd, 2013, 9:32 pm

A_K wrote:Funny to see this topic pop up again.

Had a good laugh on Saturday when the Fox crew said "Chris Davis came over in the Koji Uehara trade, one of the only moves Andy MacPhail made that's still visible on this Orioles roster."

Oh, yeah. One of the few. Just Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, Chris Davis, Tommy Hunter, J.J. Hardy, Troy Patton, Markakis (extension), Machado (draft and sign), Matusz (draft and sign), and Wieters (sign). That's all. Not many visible pieces of the team there.


I agree. He and Joe Jordan deserve some credit for the good things done here. McPhail was a step in the right direction for certain. Though he also wasn't bereft of mistakes either. Considering the state of the team when he took over. The man did a solid job that was going to be tough on anyone to get things turned around.

I would guess that fans like myself are someone dour on the subject because those years didn't result in better returns in regards to starting pitching.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #20 by birdwatcher55 » July 4th, 2013, 9:26 am

Wow.. Fox said that? Hilarious!
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #21 by ofahn » July 4th, 2013, 10:17 am

birdwatcher55 wrote:Wow.. Fox said that?


I haven't heard ANYTHING intelligent spoken by ANY Fox talking head in over twenty years.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #22 by ofahn » July 4th, 2013, 10:37 am

osforlife wrote:He just lacked everywhere else; failed free agent signings, failed international presence, failed extensions.


IMO that was a combination of his devaluation of international signings, his "coupon clipping" mentality when it came to team finances, and his unwillingness to challenge Angelos when he meddled.

I can only fantasize about what our farm system would look like today if we would have spent an additional 15M on the draft and 10M on international signings during his tenure. You know, an amount LESS than what we spent on Micheal Gonzales, Kevin Gregg, and Garret Adkins.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #23 by ofahn » July 4th, 2013, 10:43 am

dan72 wrote: Lets also remember that he allowed Joe Jordan to make some rather poor draft choices


Jordan was hampered by the budget he was given by Angelos. IMO it was the biggest reason he fled town when his contract was up.

Jordan is not responsible for the HORRENDOUS development system we had; ANGELOS was by insisting his lackeys and toadies occupied decision making positions. Jordan brought in talent and the farm system ruined it.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #24 by Seafordeagles » July 4th, 2013, 1:50 pm

The Orioles have signed absolutely not one top rated international player since the international free agency began recently. It's all about the Benjamins. There is no difference between MacPhail and Duquette in that regard.

They have no interest in the higher ranked international free agents or they are told how and where to spend Peter's money.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #25 by ofahn » July 4th, 2013, 1:53 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:they are told how and where to spend Peter's money.


BINGO!
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #26 by LA Detective » July 6th, 2013, 10:45 am

He did a few good things. Bedard had to be traded but he did a good job getting the right guys. Good job on a floundering Hardy too. The Davis, Hunter and Strop trades, I give more credit to Buck. I am sure that was initiated by him.

I was not a AM fan though. He built teams and the organization that were not any where near "The Oriole Way." Our teams were horrible on defense and didn't play fundamental baseball. This went all the way down to the minor leagues. I liked his belief on, "growing the arms" but the organization was horrible in developing the arms.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #27 by ofahn » July 8th, 2013, 12:14 pm

Andy Mac seemed to think that winning on the balance sheet was more important than how the team performed or the investment in the future. We may never know whether that was his inherent philosophy or the hand he was dealt by Angelos, but that neglect is the reason we don't have the prospects to trade to improve the team this season.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #28 by birdwatcher55 » July 8th, 2013, 2:23 pm

ofahn wrote:
Jordan was hampered by the budget he was given by Angelos. IMO it was the biggest reason he fled town when his contract was up.

Jordan is not responsible for the HORRENDOUS development system we had; ANGELOS was by insisting his lackeys and toadies occupied decision making positions. Jordan brought in talent and the farm system ruined it.

Check Jordan's record. He was absolutely horrible. Look at the Marlins: they have ZERO budget yet find talent. Thankfully we have some intelligence in the personnel area now where none existed before 8-)
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #29 by ofahn » July 9th, 2013, 1:36 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Check Jordan's record. He was absolutely horrible. Look at the Marlins: they have ZERO budget yet find talent. Thankfully we have some intelligence in the personnel area now where none existed before 8-)


You appear to confuse bad scouting for bad development.
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Re: How much credit does Andy MacPhail deserve?

PostPost #30 by A_K » July 9th, 2013, 5:28 pm

ofahn wrote:You appear to confuse bad scouting for bad development.


Thing is, it's virtually impossible to separate one from the other from the outside.
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