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Back from the ledge!

Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #31 by osforlife » June 10th, 2013, 7:37 pm

Yeah I remember hearing people around baseball were much higher on Chen. Still, I'm curious to see him pitch. I would take a Bruce Chen like #5 pitcher/spot starter/long reliever. After seeing Joe Blanton get $15mil over two years, and Jeremy Guthrie get $25mil over three years, $17mil for three years of Wei Yin Chen and whatever production we get out of Wada, DD did some good business.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #32 by dan72 » June 11th, 2013, 12:26 am

If you think doing good business means not spending any money and not improving the team. The only money really spent was the abitration money, and that again did not improve the team. Look at what the Royals did in terms of pitching. Look at what the Nationals have done with Gio Gonzalez..... If you want quality pitching there are two roads to go, either pay for it or develop it. Developing it is like winning the lottery, it doesn't happen very often. Think Mussina.

I agree that most of the free agents this past off season were over paid, having said that the Orioles are not strangers to over paying ie. Markakis.
Again I reference the Nationals. Did they over pay for Worth? Of coarse they did. That signing sent a message to the baseball world that the Nats were for real and that they wanted to compete. After that signing the gates opened up and more quality free agents went there. Injuries and poor defense have hampered the Nats this season but they have pitching, and I would not count them out at this point.
If we are hanging our hat on Hammel and Chen, then the other contending teams must be licking thier chops to play us. Yes our lineup can score runs but our pitchers are good at giving them up to.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #33 by mikezpen » June 11th, 2013, 7:24 am

Given the ridiculous salaries they're pitching even mediocre pitchers, the market for Chen and Hammill w/b bursting. They're both gone when their contracts expire because the O's won't pay those kinds of salaries.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #34 by birdwatcher55 » June 11th, 2013, 12:11 pm

Yeah I think Dan did a good job getting Chen here at a good price. I could see us extending him after this season. I think they let Hammel walk with the assumption Bundy and Gausman will be ready. That may be a bit of reach right now 8-)
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #35 by ofahn » June 11th, 2013, 8:36 pm

dan72 wrote:If you think doing good business means not spending any money and not improving the team. The only money really spent was the abitration money, and that again did not improve the team.


OK, WHICH pitchers would you have bought that have proven to be effective this year and wouldn't come with a franchise wrecking contract?

dan72 wrote:Look at what the Royals did in terms of pitching.


Yes, and they had quality prospects that could afford to trade. We didn't and still don't.

dan72 wrote:Look at what the Nationals have done with Gio Gonzalez.....


See above.

dan72 wrote:Again I reference the Nationals. Did they over pay for Worth? Of coarse they did. That signing sent a message to the baseball world that the Nats were for real and that they wanted to compete.


I submit that our Jayson Werth contract was Adam Jones. Of course, we already had him on our team, but making that commitment showed that team was finally reading to build a winner.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #36 by ofahn » June 11th, 2013, 8:55 pm

mikezpen wrote:Given the ridiculous salaries they're pitching even mediocre pitchers, the market for Chen and Hammill w/b bursting. They're both gone when their contracts expire because the O's won't pay those kinds of salaries.


We have Chen signed through nest year and an option for 2015, but IF this were his walk year and he ended the year with his current stats it's almost certain that we would make him a qualified offer so we would at least get a draft pick.

That being said, the fact that we don't control him after 2015 makes me wonder why we didn't draft more college SPs with our first ten picks. At this point the only legit SP prospects we have in the system for 2016 are Eduardo Rodriguez, Tim Berry, Zach Davies, and Josh Hader. If you include Devin Jones that would make six, but the mortality rate for pitching prospects is about two out of three. Mike Wright would almost certainly have shown whether he was a ML SP by that time.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #37 by birdwatcher55 » June 12th, 2013, 3:05 pm

This was a bad loss today to the Angels. And it couldn't have come at worse time with the Red Sox coming in for four games. What the hell was Buck thinking today with Strop?????????????? 8-)
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #38 by dan72 » June 12th, 2013, 3:55 pm

Some people would lead you to believe that we cant afford any quality pitching and the only pitchers we can get to come here are guys from the scrap heap. I say thats a load of crap. Angelos and DD have to spend money to get pitching. Its that simple. There are 8-10 teams that are out of contention, call one of them and make a trade.....
We dont have to go through all of the theoretical scenarios of who you would trade...there are only a few prospects that would not be available, otherwise everyone would be open for discussion.
Waiting for Bundy and Gausman isnt gonna cut it THIS year. This team is one good starter and maybe one good reliever away from first place......
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #39 by ofahn » June 12th, 2013, 4:00 pm

dan72 wrote:Some people would lead you to believe that we cant afford any quality pitching and the only pitchers we can get to come here are guys from the scrap heap. I say thats a load of crap. Angelos and DD have to spend money to get pitching. Its that simple. There are 8-10 teams that are out of contention, call one of them and make a trade.....
We dont have to go through all of the theoretical scenarios of who you would trade...there are only a few prospects that would not be available, otherwise everyone would be open for discussion.
Waiting for Bundy and Gausman isnt gonna cut it THIS year. This team is one good starter and maybe one good reliever away from first place......


WHICH pitchers do you see available that would make a difference and WHAT would you be willing to trade for them that another team wouldn't laugh at?
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #40 by dan72 » June 12th, 2013, 7:09 pm

I knew you would ask that. The answer lies in the post "potential pitching trade targets". I posted that the last time you asked for who I would be intersted in. Any of those guys would fit nicely at the top of our rotation, without breaking the bank. I carefully researched all of their salaries before I posted. After all I would hate to see ownership spend any of the MASN money........
We dont need Kershaw or Verlander, we just need a horse that will eat innings, pitch to a decent ERA and give us a chance to win every 5th day.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #41 by dan72 » June 12th, 2013, 7:20 pm

2nd part answer, what I would trade:
Urrutia- he's older, unproven, has value and we are set at outfield
Delmonico- Has value, can hit, is seen as a mid to upper tier prospect
Britton- Left handed starter, should have some value
Caleb Joseph- stock is on the rise, good bat, we are set at catcher
Parker Bridwell- Hard thrower, young and raw, still has value
*if Urrutia continues to progress Markakis or McClouth would be available, that all hinges on Urrutia. Trading Markakis would be tough because of his contract but not impossible.
Avery and or Hoes- Again set at outfield, both guys are young and have some value.

Some combination of these players is what it would take to get the deal done.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #42 by ofahn » June 13th, 2013, 10:10 am

dan72 wrote:I posted that the last time you asked for who I would be intersted in.


Dan,

I respect your passion for our team, but IMO NONE of the pitchers on your list are game changers and they will all be over priced. I simply don't want to mortgage our future on a player that will almost certainly not make a difference this year. IF (and I mean a BIG if) the rest of our pitching straightens out THEN I could justify over paying for one of these dregs.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #43 by A_K » June 13th, 2013, 11:19 am

The Orioles don't need game changers, and none of them would require "mortgaging the future" to acquire. There is such thing as a useful, inexpensive veteran acquisition. Teams in playoff contention should (and almost always do) make them.
Last edited by A_K on June 13th, 2013, 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #44 by ofahn » June 13th, 2013, 11:45 am

A_K wrote:The Orioles don't need to be game changers, and none of them would require "mortgaging the future" to acquire. There is such thing as a useful, inexpensive veteran acquisition. Teams in playoff contention should (and almost always do) make them.

We're probably saying the same thing, but I wouldn't trade any of our top five prospects for a SP unless the rest of our pitching gets its act together.
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Re: Back from the ledge!

PostPost #45 by birdwatcher55 » June 13th, 2013, 12:18 pm

Not even for Garza??? 8-)
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