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Where's Urrutia?

Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #16 by A_K » June 5th, 2013, 5:26 pm

Worth keeping in mind that he's 26 years old. While he's new to the system, he's old for his level and will be in his physical prime next year. Unlike most prospects, it actually makes sense to aggressively promote him, so long as he's holding his own.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #17 by dan72 » June 5th, 2013, 11:59 pm

I think he needs at bats in Norfolk before he comes to Baltimore. By the way who would you demote to bring him up? Dickerson and Valencia are both hitting, and I don't thinl you want to replace a utility infielder with 5th or 6th outfielder/dh.......
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #18 by A_K » June 6th, 2013, 12:31 am

Not really advocating for bringing him up, nor do I have much of an opinion of whether he's ready or not. Just making the general point that you can't take an especially patient approach with a 26-year-old prospect in AA.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #19 by ofahn » June 6th, 2013, 5:08 am

A_K wrote:Worth keeping in mind that he's 26 years old. While he's new to the system, he's old for his level and will be in his physical prime next year. Unlike most prospects, it actually makes sense to aggressively promote him, so long as he's holding his own.


IMO there's a big difference between promoting him to Norfolk and bringing him to Baltimore. Kubatko and Melewski have both reported that the team feels that he's not ready in his defense or base running skills. What kind of message would it send to him and all of our other prospects if we promoted someone that we have been telling is NOT ready. I can live with the production we're currently getting from DH. What I can't live with is rushing another prospect where's there's no valid reason to do so.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #20 by A_K » June 6th, 2013, 11:03 am

ofahn wrote:
IMO there's a big difference between promoting him to Norfolk and bringing him to Baltimore. Kubatko and Melewski have both reported that the team feels that he's not ready in his defense or base running skills. What kind of message would it send to him and all of our other prospects if we promoted someone that we have been telling is NOT ready. I can live with the production we're currently getting from DH. What I can't live with is rushing another prospect where's there's no valid reason to do so.


But there is a valid reason in this case. He's 26 years old.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #21 by ofahn » June 6th, 2013, 3:57 pm

A_K wrote:But there is a valid reason in this case. He's 26 years old.


Granted, but it's his hit tool that's performing like he's 26 not his other tools.

I would promote him to AAA, but I would wait until he's completely ready before I would show him Baltimore.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #22 by OriolesRedskins28 » June 6th, 2013, 6:08 pm

ofahn wrote:I would promote him to AAA, but I would wait until he's completely ready before I would show him Baltimore.


Especially because they already have good OF depth at the ML level without even taking into consideration that Reimold and Betemit will be back at some point.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #23 by ofahn » June 6th, 2013, 6:47 pm

OriolesRedskins28 wrote:even taking into consideration that Reimold and Betemit will be back at some point


I have strongly agreed with the team's plan to allow Reimold to show whether he could be an impact player, but I now believe that ship has sailed. I would not be surprised if he's not DFA'd when he finishes his rehab assignment.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #24 by Jordan Tuwiner » June 6th, 2013, 8:58 pm

I know the numbers are good, but I don't think people should get too hyped up about Urrutia. He was thought of as a fringe starter, most likely a 4th OF when he was signed. He's average all around.

Not saying he can't contribute, but this guy is not a star.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #25 by mikezpen » June 7th, 2013, 2:49 am

He mite not be a star as a total package. But strictly as a hitter he could be a pretty significant addition.I think they s/at least send him to Norfolk. He can keep working on his base-running and fielding skills there just as easily as he can at Bowie.And there, he w/see more polished pitching by vet pitchers who have pretty good control and a more advanced arsenal of breaking pitches/change-ups than you'd see in double A. I think he'd get a lot of junk in the Majors,and this gives him a head start in facing and getting used to it.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #26 by Old Sneakers » June 7th, 2013, 3:16 am

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:I know the numbers are good, but I don't think people should get too hyped up about Urrutia. He was thought of as a fringe starter, most likely a 4th OF when he was signed. He's average all around.

Not saying he can't contribute, but this guy is not a star.


Finally! Someone has said it!

Look he's a decent bat, not a top 5 prospect by any means. Let him become a solid defender and base runner. He needs to show a good deal more than he has to date before he joins any discussion about regular playing time in Baltimore. When all is said and done he might end up being a utility player. We don't know. Hurrying him isn't going to make it better.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #27 by A_K » June 7th, 2013, 2:09 pm

I'm not coming anywhere close to saying he's a special prospect, or someone who should be expected to make a difference for the big league club.

I'm saying he's 26 years old, and if you handle him with the patience you'd want for a 20-year-old prospect, he'll be past his prime by the time he's promoted to the majors.

In short: he is fundamentally different than every draft pick matriculating through the system, and so should be handled differently.

If you sign a 25 year old prospect, and then lose a year due to visa issues, you can't be all that patient about developing him. If you want to get any value out of him (as a 4th outfielder, a DH, a utility player, whatever), he can't stick around in the minors for the next three years.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #28 by ofahn » June 7th, 2013, 2:50 pm

A_K wrote:In short: he is fundamentally different than every draft pick matriculating through the system, and so should be handled differently.


I understand your thesis, but I don't understand the underlying logic. If he's not ready to be a complete player how is accelerating his arrival in Baltimore going to change that?

Are you saying that you think we should intensify his training and the attention he receives from the instructional staff>?
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #29 by A_K » June 7th, 2013, 5:38 pm

ofahn wrote:
I understand your thesis, but I don't understand the underlying logic. If he's not ready to be a complete player how is accelerating his arrival in Baltimore going to change that?

Are you saying that you think we should intensify his training and the attention he receives from the instructional staff>?


I'm saying there's no concern about "ruining him" through rushing him to the show. The moment he reaches the point-- assuming he every does-- that he provides more value for the big league team at any position (DH, 4th OFer, pinch runner, anything) than whoever is currently doing that job, he should be promoted. If he never reaches that point, that's fine. He's not a great prospect in the first place. But if he ever reaches the point that he is a better option for even a part-time role than one of our regulars, he should be promoted.

Most "real" prospects should never be evaluated relative to the major league team. If you think they've learned all they can learn in the minors, or that they can learn more in the majors in the minors, you should promote them. The decision shouldn't be based on whoever they're replacing on the 25 man roster. Their long-term value is more important than their immediate value. For Urrutia, there is no long-term value. He's already three years older than Xavier Avery. There's no point waiting around for him to get polished.
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Re: Where's Urrutia?

PostPost #30 by ofahn » June 7th, 2013, 5:42 pm

A_K wrote:I'm saying there's no concern about "ruining him" through rushing him to the show. The moment he reaches the point-- assuming he every does-- that he provides more value for the big league team at any position (DH, 4th OFer, pinch runner, anything) than whoever is currently doing that job, he should be promoted. If he never reaches that point, that's fine. He's not a great prospect in the first place. But if he ever reaches the point that he is a better option for even a part-time role than one of our regulars, he should be promoted.


OK; now I understand and I agree with you. I think you deserve a point for having the patience to explain that to me. Thanks.
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