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Orioles MVP

Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #16 by osforlife » June 1st, 2013, 11:53 am

It's either Machado or Davis. But Jones, McLouth, and Markakis have all gotten off to very good starts. 5 regular players hitting above .296 is just insane.
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #17 by osforlife » June 1st, 2013, 12:34 pm

C- Posey is the best and is a winner. Mauer is great but has trouble playing the full year. I know Y. Molina is a proven winner but I have to put Wieters 2nd. Maybe a bit bias but I think he can overtake Y. Molina. What he brings everyday behind the plate would make me take him over Mauer.

Even though Posey, Santana, and Mauer aren't full time catchers, their hitting production puts them ahead of Wieters. Molina and Wieters are probably about the same defensively, but Molina is far superior offensively.

1B Votto then Davis; Davis isn't just hot. He has escalated along the way to being at the level he is.

I’d have to say this at the end of the season, but I think I’d take Votto and Fielder over Davis. Paul Goldschmidt is very good too.

SS- Hardy has to be in the top 3. His D, top SS power and on-field leadership is why.

I barely have Hardy in the top 10. I know the shortstop position is weak all around baseball, but Hardy is all defense with little offensive production. He’ll basically have an OBP in the mid-to-high .200’s and a slugging percentage around the .400’s. I have Elvis Andrus, Yunel Escobar, Alexi Ramirez, Starlin Castro, Erick Aybar, Everth Cabrera, Ian Desmond, Asdrubal Cabrera, Johnny Peralta, and Troy Tulowitski over Hardy, making Hardy #11 actually.

3B- I know Cabrera has to be #1 and Longoria #2 and even David Wright in there, but what if Manny doesn’t slow down or he improves as many think he will? I know Cabrera rakes but what about the D? If Manny stays at this level would Cabrera actually make us better?

The Orioles would place Cabrera at DH. Miguel Cabrera would make every team in the world significantly better somehow. Manny Machado is with Cabrera, Beltre, Longoria, and Wright as the premier third basemen in baseball.

OF- Is there a better OF in baseball right now that combines offense and D?

All of our outfielders are smoking the ball right now, even Chris Dickerson. But the thing is, even though we have three Gold Glovers out there, none of them are very good defensively. Still, they are probably in contention for the best outfield in baseball. The Brewers, Cardinals, and Dodgers have very good outfields.
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #18 by Seafordeagles » June 1st, 2013, 3:38 pm

osforlife wrote:But the thing is, even though we have three Gold Glovers out there, none of them are very good defensively.


Okay this has got to be one of the strangest quotes I have ever read. And incidentally, I don't agree.....................
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #19 by ofahn » June 1st, 2013, 4:09 pm

osforlife wrote:even though we have three Gold Glovers out there, none of them are very good defensively


I'm sure what you are basing that on. IMO Markakis is a consistently plus defender, McLouth is consistently above average, and Jones is average but has moments of brilliance.
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #20 by osforlife » June 1st, 2013, 9:27 pm

Nick Markakis has produced a positive defensive value just once in '08.
Nate McLouth has produced a -6.0 dWAR in nine seasons.
Adam Jones has produced a 0.3 dWAR in eight seasons.
I don't think any of them are bad; I just don't think they are good.
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #21 by birdwatcher55 » June 3rd, 2013, 11:27 am

20 HRs, 52 RBI and .300 plus. Any question it's Crush??? 8-)
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #22 by ofahn » June 3rd, 2013, 1:04 pm

osforlife wrote:Nick Markakis has produced a positive defensive value just once in '08.
Nate McLouth has produced a -6.0 dWAR in nine seasons.
Adam Jones has produced a 0.3 dWAR in eight seasons.
I don't think any of them are bad; I just don't think they are good.


I'll be the first to admit that I don't fully understand any of the WAR ratings, but IMO ANY rating that doesn't see Markakis as a plus defender is somehow flawed. He runs precise routes in the OF, catches almost everything he gets near, and he has an accurate cannon that has caused most of the league to simply stop running on him. I wish we could say all of that about a certain CF.
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #23 by A_K » June 3rd, 2013, 3:49 pm

My eyes pretty much correspond to what various advanced defensive metrics say. Markakis and Jones both look to me on a nightly basis like below average defensive outfielders. McLouth I have to say strikes me as an average-ish left fielder. I certainly don't think Jones is anywhere near as good as his reputation. And Markakis long ago stopped playing to the level of his local reputation (Baltimore fans continue to believe he's a good defender, but the rest of the country seems to have realized he isn't).
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #24 by ofahn » June 3rd, 2013, 5:47 pm

A_K wrote:My eyes pretty much correspond to what various advanced defensive metrics say. Markakis and Jones both look to me on a nightly basis like below average defensive outfielders. McLouth I have to say strikes me as an average-ish left fielder. I certainly don't think Jones is anywhere near as good as his reputation. And Markakis long ago stopped playing to the level of his local reputation (Baltimore fans continue to believe he's a good defender, but the rest of the country seems to have realized he isn't).


I don't drink the Kool Aid, but I just see Markakis as a plus OF. Of course, opinions vary.
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #25 by Seafordeagles » June 3rd, 2013, 9:17 pm

A_K wrote:(Baltimore fans continue to believe he's a good defender, but the rest of the country seems to have realized he isn't).


A question for you. How would you know what the rest of the country thinks of Nick's defense?
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #26 by A_K » June 3rd, 2013, 9:46 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:
A question for you. How would you know what the rest of the country thinks of Nick's defense?


I don't. I'm judging from the very small sample of writers and fans I come across (friends, strangers at bars and in ballparks, and of course people on the Internet). Maybe it's representative of the larger baseball-watching population, more likely its representative of nothing at all.
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #27 by birdwatcher55 » June 4th, 2013, 10:41 am

I think Nick is adequate in RF but it is probably nearing a point where you think about a younger, cheaper alternative and make Nick your full-time DH 8-)
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #28 by Seafordeagles » June 4th, 2013, 11:21 am

birdwatcher55 wrote:I think Nick is adequate in RF but it is probably nearing a point where you think about a younger, cheaper alternative and make Nick your full-time DH 8-)


He's 29 years old and you think he's nearing the point to be your full time DH. That's just crazy. He has exactly ZERO errors on the year and ALL of baseball respect his throwing arm. Plus he's thrown out 4 runners so far.

What more could anyone want out of their right fielder?????????????
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #29 by A_K » June 4th, 2013, 11:40 am

He's not nearly valuable bough as a hitter to be worth his contract as a DH.
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Re: Orioles MVP

PostPost #30 by birdwatcher55 » June 4th, 2013, 12:07 pm

Like I said earlier: Nick is adequate in RF but he has appeared to slow down a bit. Doesn't get to the balls like he used to at one time. I would still put him out there through 2014 and then look to move him to the DH spot. Just my two cents 8-)
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