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Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #31 by thezeroes » April 20th, 2013, 8:26 am

As the Orioles 25 man roster is currently constructed the movement of its pitchers is somewhat hamstrung. The following pitchers on the 25 man roster are those with no options, options and reasons that the options can't/won't be used:

Chris Tillman - Out of options
Wi-Yen Chen - Would need to accept the option per contract
Miguel Gonzalez - Has options but if someone is recalled from Minors would they be an improvement.
Jason Hammel - Out of Options
T J McFarland - Rule five, would be claimed if placed on waivers an would also be returned to Cleveland.
Tommy Hunter - out of options
Troy Patton - out of options
Pedro Strop - out of options
Jim Johnson - out of options
Darren O'Day - Has options but is back end of bullpen performer.
Jake Arrieta - Has options
Brian Matusz - Has Options

Now Jair Jurrjens does have an option remaining but would need to be placed on the forty along with a corresponding 25 man move. As you can see the removable pieces with options are Matusz, Arrieta, and releasing T J McFarland. You could trade Hunter if so desired.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #32 by ofahn » April 20th, 2013, 10:02 am

thezeroes wrote:As the Orioles 25 man roster is currently constructed the movement of its pitchers is somewhat hamstrung. The following pitchers on the 25 man roster are those with no options, options and reasons that the options can't/won't be used:

Chris Tillman - Out of options
Wi-Yen Chen - Would need to accept the option per contract
Miguel Gonzalez - Has options but if someone is recalled from Minors would they be an improvement.
Jason Hammel - Out of Options
T J McFarland - Rule five, would be claimed if placed on waivers an would also be returned to Cleveland.
Tommy Hunter - out of options
Troy Patton - out of options
Pedro Strop - out of options
Jim Johnson - out of options
Darren O'Day - Has options but is back end of bullpen performer.
Jake Arrieta - Has options
Brian Matusz - Has Options

Now Jair Jurrjens does have an option remaining but would need to be placed on the forty along with a corresponding 25 man move. As you can see the removable pieces with options are Matusz, Arrieta, and releasing T J McFarland. You could trade Hunter if so desired.


This is a thought provoking post and most certainly worth a POINT!

The large number of pitchers on our staff that are out of options but have not yet established a track record of consistent success was another reason I expressed doubts all winter that this was a championship team, and that same thought was almost certainly was on the minds of the front office.

Of course, they would never say so publicly, but the FO has based their off season decisions on using 2013 as a proving ground for the talent on this team. If most of the players continue to improve then they will probably make some trades and "free" agent signings this winter that would make us a legitimate contender. If not, then they would have to consider making a few strategic trades (Hardy, Jim Johnson) by July to supplement the farm system.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the players on your list traded by mid July.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #33 by thezeroes » April 20th, 2013, 10:22 am

The three moves that I see upcoming after the starters get their respective ninth game under their belt would be that of Tommy Hunter traded or released, Jake Arrieta optioned to Norfolk and replaced by the healthiest of Steve Johnson or Zach Britton, and Brian Matusz optioned to Norfolk to be allowed to stretch out for a starters spot and replaced by Jair Jurrjens.

This would be 54/56 games into the season. By this time the pecking order and replacement closer should emerge from the remaining staff. McFarland will either settle into his role as the rule 5 pick or be returned (I think either Miami or Houston claim him). The general direction of the ball club should be evident along with the competition level in the AL East. Who needs to be traded and should it be for pieces to win the division or for pieces that are to be a mainstay of the future (prospects).
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #34 by osforlife » April 20th, 2013, 11:56 am

Injuries should sort these things out over the course of a season. I usually like to wait at least a month until I would consider demoting somebody, but Jake Arrieta shouldn't have made this roster and I would be fine with demoting him. The man hasn't hit one spot all year. 6.6 BB/9; it's early so maybe he just needs to get back into the groove, so I'll give him one or two more starts. But, if hasn't improved after that, let Steve Johnson takes the reigns. Chris Tillman has been very bad too, but at least he has half a season last year where he pitched like an ace. Arrieta has nothing to back his cause up. So that could be one swap to make. I don't like Matusz in the bullpen either, even if he has pitched well ever since being moved there. Alex Burnett & Daniel Schlereth seem like qualified major league pitchers.

Position player wise, carrying Steve Pearce & Chris Dickerson doesn't really make much sense IMO. Maybe, one of them gets moved. Also, Flaherty is really stinking up the joint right now; Yamaico Navarro maybe?
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #35 by ofahn » April 20th, 2013, 12:57 pm

osforlife wrote:Jake Arrieta shouldn't have made this roster and I would be fine with demoting him


Agreed.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #36 by ofahn » April 20th, 2013, 1:02 pm

osforlife wrote:I don't like Matusz in the bullpen either, even if he has pitched well ever since being moved there.


Are you saying that you don't think he can be effective there or that you would prefer to see him stretched out as a SP?
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #37 by osforlife » April 20th, 2013, 3:06 pm

ofahn wrote:
Are you saying that you don't think he can be effective there or that you would prefer to see him stretched out as a SP?

Stretched out as a SP
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #38 by ofahn » April 20th, 2013, 4:09 pm

osforlife wrote:Stretched out as a SP


He's convinced me that he's more comfortable as a reliever, and he's become a pretty good one. We may have to accept that he may never be more than that.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #39 by osforlife » April 20th, 2013, 5:01 pm

ofahn wrote:
He's convinced me that he's more comfortable as a reliever, and he's become a pretty good one. We may have to accept that he may never be more than that.

You've been saying all off-season long that you would like to see him go down to AAA as a starter, and now all of a sudden, after a handful of good appearances, you seem to think he should stay in the bullpen? We knew all along Matusz could pitch well out of the bullpen. The question was, could he pitch well out of the rotation?
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #40 by ofahn » April 20th, 2013, 5:51 pm

osforlife wrote:You've been saying all off-season long that you would like to see him go down to AAA as a starter, and now all of a sudden, after a handful of good appearances, you seem to think he should stay in the bullpen?


Those two POVs don't necessarily conflict, IMO. I would PREFER that he become an effective starter; however, he was not effective in that role during ST, even against lesser talent. Maybe, about 50 innings in AAA might have restored his comfort level; but the brain trust decided that his place was in the Baltimore bullpen.

The fat lady may not have sung yet on making Matusz a SP. but she's warming up the vocal cords.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #41 by osforlife » April 21st, 2013, 9:04 am

ofahn wrote:
Those two POVs don't necessarily conflict, IMO. I would PREFER that he become an effective starter; however, he was not effective in that role during ST, even against lesser talent. Maybe, about 50 innings in AAA might have restored his comfort level; but the brain trust decided that his place was in the Baltimore bullpen.

The fat lady may not have sung yet on making Matusz a SP. but she's warming up the vocal cords.

Why bring up ST? Stats from ST are useless. Jackie Bradley & Aaron Hicks had wonderful spring trainings, and they haven't done crap in the majors. Never make future baseball decisions out of Spring Training competitions. It's fine to decide who is going to be the 25th man on the roster through a competition(Pearce vs. Jackson), but don't demote a talented young pitcher to a bullpen role because he had a lousy Spring Training as a starter.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #42 by thezeroes » April 21st, 2013, 9:42 am

Brian Matusz has ONE option remaining.

He is effective in the bullpen and could be a long man if needed to flip some other teams lineup.

If you use his option to stretch him out THIS YEAR IMO it would be wasted as he has pitched as advertised out of the pen. I would keep him on the twenty-five all year as a reliever for three reasons.
1) To save his last remaining option
2) We have other starters at Norfolk to be used in Baltimore that have already used this years option (Britton, S. Johnson)
3) Bundy, Gausman etc... for the future rotation spots

This is just my take and I had previously stated that an option was wasted on Jake Arrieta last year when he could have just as easily replaced Kevin Gregg instead of being demoted and using one of the two he had remaining.

As fans we should NEVER forget that the "Lifeblood" of Orioles teams is the ability to manipulate the 40 Man Roster to the MLB teams advantage and to waste options will lend itself to losing players through the waiver wire and/or hamstring any future moves.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #43 by ofahn » April 21st, 2013, 9:46 am

osforlife wrote:Why bring up ST? Stats from ST are useless. Jackie Bradley & Aaron Hicks had wonderful spring trainings, and they haven't done crap in the majors. Never make future baseball decisions out of Spring Training competitions. It's fine to decide who is going to be the 25th man on the roster through a competition(Pearce vs. Jackson), but don't demote a talented young pitcher to a bullpen role because he had a lousy Spring Training as a starter.


I don't disagree with you, but I think the organization has made it's decision whether we like it or not.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #44 by ofahn » April 21st, 2013, 9:47 am

thezeroes wrote:Brian Matusz has ONE option remaining.

He is effective in the bullpen and could be a long man if needed to flip some other teams lineup.

If you use his option to stretch him out THIS YEAR IMO it would be wasted as he has pitched as advertised out of the pen. I would keep him on the twenty-five all year as a reliever for three reasons.
1) To save his last remaining option
2) We have other starters at Norfolk to be used in Baltimore that have already used this years option (Britton, S. Johnson)
3) Bundy, Gausman etc... for the future rotation spots

This is just my take and I had previously stated that an option was wasted on Jake Arrieta last year when he could have just as easily replaced Kevin Gregg instead of being demoted and using one of the two he had remaining.

As fans we should NEVER forget that the "Lifeblood" of Orioles teams is the ability to manipulate the 40 Man Roster to the MLB teams advantage and to waste options will lend itself to losing players through the waiver wire and/or hamstring any future moves.


IMO the organization is thinking along the same lines.
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Re: Jair Jurrjens signed to minor league deal

PostPost #45 by LA Detective » April 21st, 2013, 6:37 pm

I have always wanted Matusz to be given a chance to be a starter. I thought he should of been given that chance until June or so (probably in AAA) then moved to the pen. But, my opinion has changed. Matusz isnt just another BP arm, he has turned into quite the weapon. Our backend with JJ, ODay, and Matusz is as stong as anyones. If we can keep them fresh all season it will be a huge strength for us. Doesn't mean he is done as a starter for the future but right now Matusz value is greater where he is.
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