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Who should be the Orioles closer?

Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #1 by 2131andBeyond » September 4th, 2010, 11:23 pm

I believe Mike Gonzalez should be given a shot at closing this month, especially with the schedule being full of the AL East. Why I say that is because he is under contract and will be back next season, so the experience against these hitters would help. Plus, if he can't handle it, we are not losing the pennant or anything at this point. I am just arguing him over Koji for the month because Koji is a free agent after this season, and who knows if he will be back in an O's uniform or not next year.

I know Buck does not like to declare a guy to be the closer, but it's obvious at this point that it is Koji, and has been others at different times.

Key Question: Who should be the Orioles closer for September/October? Gonzalez? Koji? Somebody else (Johnson, Simon, Hernandez, other)?
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #2 by Jordan Tuwiner » September 5th, 2010, 1:17 am

I would give Gonzalez the chance to be the full time closer - isn't that what we signed him for? Assuming Gonzalez has returned to form, I'd sign Koji to a 1-year deal and keep him as the 8th inning/emergency closer for next year.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #3 by 2131andBeyond » September 5th, 2010, 1:19 am

Jordan wrote:I would give Gonzalez the chance to be the full time closer - isn't that what we signed him for? Assuming Gonzalez has returned to form, I'd sign Koji to a 1-year deal and keep him as the 8th inning/emergency closer for next year.



I agree. I mean, Gonzo is being paid closer money. With a 1.80 ERA since coming back, it's not like he has not earned the spot back. Before Koji found recent success in the role, I was quite confused as to others were being used over Mike when he had a few good outings in him and showed he could do it. I still say that with these AL East teams coming up, Gonzo should close and get used to what it's like against the top hitting teams in baseball since he will most likely be doing it next season.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #4 by BuckMagic » September 9th, 2010, 7:04 pm

I'd still roll with Koji, but I have a feeling we're going to see Gonzalez get some opportunities.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #5 by allstar1579 » September 9th, 2010, 9:37 pm

Jordan wrote:I would give Gonzalez the chance to be the full time closer - isn't that what we signed him for? Assuming Gonzalez has returned to form, I'd sign Koji to a 1-year deal and keep him as the 8th inning/emergency closer for next year.


I'd actually give the role to DH and let him grow with it, sign Koji as that 1 IP 7/8th inning guy, and let Gonzo keep putting up crazy numbers so that some other team will trade for him assuming that he can still put up those numbers in the closers role. I worry that if you put him in that role and he DOESN'T perform, then his value is shot, but if you create the curiosity in some other teams that he can do it you have a better chance to get value. He was such a disaster of a signing.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #6 by Jordan Tuwiner » September 10th, 2010, 8:10 pm

allstar1579 wrote:
Jordan wrote:I would give Gonzalez the chance to be the full time closer - isn't that what we signed him for? Assuming Gonzalez has returned to form, I'd sign Koji to a 1-year deal and keep him as the 8th inning/emergency closer for next year.


I'd actually give the role to DH and let him grow with it, sign Koji as that 1 IP 7/8th inning guy, and let Gonzo keep putting up crazy numbers so that some other team will trade for him assuming that he can still put up those numbers in the closers role. I worry that if you put him in that role and he DOESN'T perform, then his value is shot, but if you create the curiosity in some other teams that he can do it you have a better chance to get value. He was such a disaster of a signing.


Here comes Hernandez...

His fastball is too straight and I think he'll give up too many home runs to become a closer.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #7 by allstar1579 » September 10th, 2010, 8:29 pm

Jordan wrote:
allstar1579 wrote:
Jordan wrote:I would give Gonzalez the chance to be the full time closer - isn't that what we signed him for? Assuming Gonzalez has returned to form, I'd sign Koji to a 1-year deal and keep him as the 8th inning/emergency closer for next year.


I'd actually give the role to DH and let him grow with it, sign Koji as that 1 IP 7/8th inning guy, and let Gonzo keep putting up crazy numbers so that some other team will trade for him assuming that he can still put up those numbers in the closers role. I worry that if you put him in that role and he DOESN'T perform, then his value is shot, but if you create the curiosity in some other teams that he can do it you have a better chance to get value. He was such a disaster of a signing.


Here comes Hernandez...

His fastball is too straight and I think he'll give up too many home runs to become a closer.


I got to see Dave a bunch before he got the call to the bigs and then again last year on a rehab stint, and I think he's got the stuff for it if he's in the right frame of mind for it. He's got better stuff than a lot of guys closing in the league right now, and he can be a bulldog on the mound sometimes. He just needs to stay aggressive and mix his pitches to have success back there. Time will tell, but it is a better idea than wasting a 2nd round pick that could have been used on Cole or Workman and throwing away $6m of payroll a year.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #8 by 2131andBeyond » September 10th, 2010, 11:59 pm

BuckMagic wrote:I'd still roll with Koji, but I have a feeling we're going to see Gonzalez get some opportunities.



With Koji, while you will obviously get mostly consistent success for the month, what does that do for the future? He may not be in part of it (I kind of hope we don't offer him money), while Gonzo is. And why pay a guy 4 mil or so next year to be a middle relief one inning or even one hitter guy, especially when since he has come back has proven he deserves a chance at it??

That's where I'm coming from here.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #9 by 2131andBeyond » September 11th, 2010, 12:00 am

allstar1579 wrote:
Jordan wrote:I would give Gonzalez the chance to be the full time closer - isn't that what we signed him for? Assuming Gonzalez has returned to form, I'd sign Koji to a 1-year deal and keep him as the 8th inning/emergency closer for next year.


I'd actually give the role to DH and let him grow with it, sign Koji as that 1 IP 7/8th inning guy, and let Gonzo keep putting up crazy numbers so that some other team will trade for him assuming that he can still put up those numbers in the closers role. I worry that if you put him in that role and he DOESN'T perform, then his value is shot, but if you create the curiosity in some other teams that he can do it you have a better chance to get value. He was such a disaster of a signing.



A closer needs to be quick and get the job done. Hence, NOT DAVID HERNANDEZ. He is the definition of an inefficient pitcher, whether he gets the job done or not. Opposed to even Bergesen where if he leaves a sinker up it still may not be a big hit each time, a flat Hernandez fastball will be crushed EVERY TIME.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #10 by 2131andBeyond » September 11th, 2010, 12:08 am

allstar1579 wrote:
I got to see Dave a bunch before he got the call to the bigs and then again last year on a rehab stint, and I think he's got the stuff for it if he's in the right frame of mind for it. He's got better stuff than a lot of guys closing in the league right now, and he can be a bulldog on the mound sometimes. He just needs to stay aggressive and mix his pitches to have success back there. Time will tell, but it is a better idea than wasting a 2nd round pick that could have been used on Cole or Workman and throwing away $6m of payroll a year.


The pick and money are settled, and we can't get either of them back. Since Gonzo came back from the DL, he has pitched to an ERA of 2.87, which includes his last outing where he let up a 2 run HR to the Rays with a 3 run lead, so it wasn't a HUGE deal, but yes, it mattered. Before that HR, he had 17 outings, 14.2 IP in those, with an ERA of 1.84 (3 ER)!!!!! And 5 ER in 18 outings and 15.2 IP isn't bad either! His ERA since the all star break is better than even Papelbon's on the season!
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #11 by DougDE » September 11th, 2010, 4:13 am

I also think it should be Gonzalez. He's under contract next year and Koji isnt. I also think Gonzalez's stuff is better. Wouldnt mind if Koji were on the team next year but not as the closer
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #12 by allstar1579 » September 11th, 2010, 9:31 am

2131andBeyond wrote:
allstar1579 wrote:
I got to see Dave a bunch before he got the call to the bigs and then again last year on a rehab stint, and I think he's got the stuff for it if he's in the right frame of mind for it. He's got better stuff than a lot of guys closing in the league right now, and he can be a bulldog on the mound sometimes. He just needs to stay aggressive and mix his pitches to have success back there. Time will tell, but it is a better idea than wasting a 2nd round pick that could have been used on Cole or Workman and throwing away $6m of payroll a year.


The pick and money are settled, and we can't get either of them back. Since Gonzo came back from the DL, he has pitched to an ERA of 2.87, which includes his last outing where he let up a 2 run HR to the Rays with a 3 run lead, so it wasn't a HUGE deal, but yes, it mattered. Before that HR, he had 17 outings, 14.2 IP in those, with an ERA of 1.84 (3 ER)!!!!! And 5 ER in 18 outings and 15.2 IP isn't bad either! His ERA since the all star break is better than even Papelbon's on the season!


You can't just pick and choose your statistics and say someone is better based on the OPINION that DH will give up more HR. If you look at the peripherals, Dave has been better as a RP, and has done better even if you drop that horrible start Gonzo had. His clutch stats are better (late & close), his SO/BB are better, his command is better, and he is younger and under control much longer than Gonzo is.

So he had a good ERA, recently, but that is a very small sample size too, not hard to find a stretch for ANY RP where he goes 10 IP with less than a 2.87 ERA, so what? He's also done it in non-save situations making $6m a year. He's had chances to be a closer 3 other times in his career and was removed from the role in all 3. He's good at what he does, as a lefty set up man, but not good as a closer, and not worth $6m per year.

Yes the money and the pick are gone now, but that doesn't mean they are a good idea now or were then. Attempting to recoup SOME value for him before he's gone next year would be at least a little bit mitigating.
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Re: Who should be the Orioles closer?

PostPost #13 by LukeScottsShotgun » September 11th, 2010, 7:06 pm

A combination of Uehara and Gonzalez, depending on the situation. As long as it's not Alfredo Simon, Fat Albers, or Mark Hendrickson.
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