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The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #1 by Jordan Tuwiner » March 8th, 2013, 6:57 pm

Rafael Furcal is out, and the Cardinals will need some production at SS. They have a ton of young arms -- Rosenthal, Lynn, Miller, Martinez, Wacha, Jenkins -- who would definitely interest the Orioles.

I think the Cardinals will start the year with Kozma at SS, but if he struggles I could see them reaching out the Orioles.

I see them as good trade partners.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #2 by ofahn » March 8th, 2013, 7:29 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:Rafael Furcal is out, and the Cardinals will need some production at SS. They have a ton of young arms -- Rosenthal, Lynn, Miller, Martinez, Wacha, Jenkins -- who would definitely interest the Orioles.

I think the Cardinals will start the year with Kozma at SS, but if he struggles I could see them reaching out the Orioles.

I see them as good trade partners.


They also have a solid 2B prospect, Kolten Wong.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #3 by osforlife » March 8th, 2013, 7:40 pm

First of, I'd like to say I don't know how many people are counting on the Cardinals to be just average or above average this year. I've read that on many websites throughout baseball. To me, I think they are a very complete team and will be on of the best teams in baseball. Their middle infield is weak, but other than that, I don't see any facets of their team as a weakness. I don't have any evidence on this, but it seems like many Tommy John Pitchers come back and do okay their first season back, and then perform admirably their second season. I believe Adam Wainwright is going to have a monster year. After him, Lynn, Garcia, and Westbrook are solid. I still see Kyle Lohse re-signing with the Cardinals. Carpenter is done, Rosenthal hasn't had much experience above AA, and Miller didn't pitch that well in AAA last year. I'd really look for Lohse to sign a one year deal with the Cards.

Back to the topic, Pete Kozma is really bad. His defense must be slick, because he owns a .236/.308/.344 batting line in the minors. He'll probably scrap the Mendoza Line and the Cardinals will look elsewhere for a shortstop solution. Although, St. Louis could always move Matt Carpenter to second, Daniel Descalso to short, and acquire a pinch hitter type.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #4 by A_K » March 8th, 2013, 7:54 pm

If thinks don't go well for the Orioles in the first half of the season, they'll have three players who will be highly desired by teams in contention in Hardy, Johnson and Hammel. The Cardinals definitely look like a logical suitor for Hardy.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #5 by Old Sneakers » March 9th, 2013, 12:48 am

ofahn wrote:
They also have a solid 2B prospect, Kolten Wong.


Bet it takes more than Hardy to get Wong
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #6 by ofahn » March 9th, 2013, 10:39 am

Old Sneakers wrote:
Bet it takes more than Hardy to get Wong


IMO it should take more than Wong to get Hardy. We're talking about an All Star SS with that's signed through 2014.

That being said, I wouldn't trade Hardy at this point UNLESS our season goes in the tank. I would have included him in a package to the Tigers this off season, but I think it's too late now if we want to maintain consistency in the roster.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #7 by osforlife » March 9th, 2013, 3:51 pm

A_K wrote:If thinks don't go well for the Orioles in the first half of the season, they'll have three players who will be highly desired by teams in contention in Hardy, Johnson and Hammel. The Cardinals definitely look like a logical suitor for Hardy.

If our season goes tank, I'd think about trading off specific talent that don't have many years locked up. Of course, teams won't be calling for the next couple as much as the three above, but I'd look to trade McLouth and Ayala too; there probably isn't much more short term, tradable, producing talent after that.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #8 by birdwatcher55 » March 11th, 2013, 11:45 am

Good Lord .. not another trade Hardy thread. He's the best damn shortstop in the AL. Give it a rest guys :roll:
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #9 by Seafordeagles » March 11th, 2013, 12:02 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Good Lord .. not another trade Hardy thread. He's the best damn shortstop in the AL. Give it a rest guys :roll:


It won't end until these guys see Manny at short.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #10 by Jordan Tuwiner » March 11th, 2013, 1:10 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Good Lord .. not another trade Hardy thread. He's the best damn shortstop in the AL. Give it a rest guys :roll:

I'd argue that Asdrubal Cabrera, Derek Jeter, Elvis Andrus, and Jose Reyes are better.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #11 by ofahn » March 11th, 2013, 2:05 pm

Jordan Tuwiner wrote:I'd argue that Asdrubal Cabrera ... (is) better


Are you basing that on his bat, his glove, or his overall performance?
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #12 by Jordan Tuwiner » March 11th, 2013, 2:11 pm

ofahn wrote:
Are you basing that on his bat, his glove, or his overall performance?

Better bat, glove isn't as bad as the stats say; overall he may be better.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #13 by osforlife » March 11th, 2013, 7:37 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Good Lord .. not another trade Hardy thread. He's the best damn shortstop in the AL. Give it a rest guys :roll:

That is probably the most ridiculous sentence I've heard in a while. There are now 15 shortstops in the American League. Erick Aybar, Tyler Greene, Hiroyuki Nakajima, Jose Reyes, Asdrubal Cabrera, Brendan Ryan, JJ Hardy, Elvis Andrus, Yunel Escobar, Stephen Drew, Alcides Escobar, Johnny Peralta, Pedro Florimon, and Alexi Ramirez, and Derek Jeter. I'd also add Jed Lowrie to the mix but he is likely going to be a rotating 2B, 3B, SS for the Athletics until one of them gets injured or underperforms. Out of that group, I can only confidently say that JJ Hardy is better than Tyler Greene, Stephen Drew, Johnny Peralta, and Pedro Florimon. I'd put him in a group with Derek Jeter, Brendan Ryan, Jed Lowrie, and Yunel Escobar. There isn't an efficient way of knowing what Nakajima will do in the majors. That means, I'd rather have Erick Aybar, Alcides Escobar, Alexi Ramirez, Elvis Andrus, Asdrubal Cabrera, and Jose Reyes over JJ Hardy.

Seafordeagles wrote:It won't end until these guys see Manny at short.

Manny Machado's value is significantly higher at shortstop than it is at third base. The longer he stays at third base, the less likely he will transition back to shortstop. Therefore, even though it would be a slight degrade for the short-term, the long-term value would benefit us much more.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #14 by A_K » March 11th, 2013, 7:48 pm

It should also be said that no one here is talking about cutting JJ Hardy. We're talking about a trade. A trade is this thing that teams do-- ideally when they're in a position in which they have a surplus of resources at one position-- where they trade one or more players or assets to another team for one or more players of equal value.

Seeing Machado at SS would be a major benefit for the team, but I (and I imagine everyone else advocating a trade) wouldn't want to make it happen by simply cutting JJ Hardy or getting rid of him for some insignificant return. The folks who are insisting that JJ Hardy can't be traded under any circumstances are being silly. If you presume an equal value in return for Hardy, along with the benefit of maximizing Machado's value by getting him to SS, it's in the team's best interest to find a partner.
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Re: The Cardinals should eventually have interest in JJ Hardy

PostPost #15 by Seafordeagles » March 11th, 2013, 10:22 pm

osforlife wrote:That means, I'd rather have Erick Aybar, Alcides Escobar, Alexi Ramirez, Elvis Andrus, Asdrubal Cabrera, and Jose Reyes over JJ Hardy.


I bet Buck think different, and he's the one that counts.
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