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How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #121 by A_K » February 7th, 2013, 11:24 pm

The flip side of that observation: how many Orioles fans will cite Saunders' raw numbers, unadjusted for park factors, next year as evidence the front office made a mistake?
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #122 by thezeroes » February 8th, 2013, 12:16 am

A_K wrote:The flip side of that observation: how many Orioles fans will cite Saunders' raw numbers, unadjusted for park factors, next year as evidence the front office made a mistake?


It would depend on the season the Orioles were having to that point and who was having the least productive year as a starter in comparison. To answer your question as simple as possible, MOST Oriole fans will think we were nuts to not sign him if he has for him a normal year while pitching at Safeco. It also will be of interest to see how the newer dimension effect Joe or will they be of an insignificant nature.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #123 by Seafordeagles » February 8th, 2013, 9:22 am

It looks like it's time for the young arms to step up. Duquette has made a statement. He would not trade any of the younger pitchers. Saunders gave the Orioles a veteran presence and that craftiness of a lefty. I for one am sorry this deal did not get done. He either is listening to his scouts and coaches or is listening to Peter and not adding salaries.

Juujens is not a done deal either. There's something going on there physically and it's probably not good.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #124 by thezeroes » February 8th, 2013, 10:41 am

Seafordeagles wrote:It looks like it's time for the young arms to step up. Duquette has made a statement. He would not trade any of the younger pitchers. Saunders gave the Orioles a veteran presence and that craftiness of a lefty. I for one am sorry this deal did not get done. He either is listening to his scouts and coaches or is listening to Peter and not adding salaries.

Juujens is not a done deal either. There's something going on there physically and it's probably not good.


Rick Peterson.
His involvement last year gave us an improved Tillman. He gave us a retooled Gonzalez. He gave us up ticks in Hunters velocity. Now his players/pitchers have had a winter of bio mechanic work outs that should bring them in with a better understanding of what it takes to achieve at the Major League level. We should hope that with the success of Tillman, Gonzalez that these other pitchers would be acceptable to Peterson's suggestions. By not getting traded they may have shown management that they are ready to take the next step.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #125 by A_K » February 8th, 2013, 12:29 pm

thezeroes wrote:


It's not the effect it will have on Joe. It's the effect the constraints of physics will have on his pitches after other players hit them with long wooden objects. SAFECO suppressed offensive production 6 percent more than league average in 2011 (most recent year available). Camden Yards inflated production by 3 percent that same year. That 9 percent difference in productivity is real.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #126 by ofahn » February 8th, 2013, 2:41 pm

osforlife wrote:Joe Saunders, Dan Haren, and Shaun Marcum all signed one year deals.


In all fairness I don't think it's appropriate to blame the FO for these guys signing someplace else. Each of them eventually came to the realization that the best deal they were going to get was one year. Forced to accept that decision, they decided to sign in a place where they could rebuild their value. Pitching in Camden Yards against the A L East is the kind of challenge that is not compatible with their short term career goals.

I have no doubt that IF we would have been willing to give Saunders two years he would have signed here, but that deal wouldn't have made sense for us. I would have liked to have him but not at that price.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #127 by ofahn » February 8th, 2013, 2:49 pm

thezeroes wrote:Rick Peterson.
His involvement last year gave us an improved Tillman. He gave us a retooled Gonzalez. He gave us up ticks in Hunters velocity. Now his players/pitchers have had a winter of bio mechanic work outs that should bring them in with a better understanding of what it takes to achieve at the Major League level. We should hope that with the success of Tillman, Gonzalez that these other pitchers would be acceptable to Peterson's suggestions. By not getting traded they may have shown management that they are ready to take the next step.


I was thinking virtually the same thing. POINTS!
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #128 by osforlife » February 8th, 2013, 3:53 pm

The Orioles weren't in a position to spend on long-term lucrative contracts that could possibly haunt a suspicious contender last year. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't have overpaid a bit on a couple one year deals. Using baseball-reference's WAR, I was looking at these highlighted player's values from past years and using them to predict my prediction for their future values.

Dan Haren: 3.5 WAR
Shaun Marcum: 2.8 WAR
Melky Cabrera: 3.5 WAR
Joe Saunders: 1 WAR

Nate McLouth/Nolan Reimold: 1.8 WAR
Steve Johnson/Tsuyoshi Wada: 0-1 WAR?
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #129 by Seafordeagles » February 8th, 2013, 4:21 pm

ofahn wrote:
In all fairness I don't think it's appropriate to blame the FO for these guys signing someplace else. Each of them eventually came to the realization that the best deal they were going to get was one year. Forced to accept that decision, they decided to sign in a place where they could rebuild their value. Pitching in Camden Yards against the A L East is the kind of challenge that is not compatible with their short term career goals.

I have no doubt that IF we would have been willing to give Saunders two years he would have signed here, but that deal wouldn't have made sense for us. I would have liked to have him but not at that price.


I have a feeling that the Orioles offered him much less than he received from Seattle. Of course we'll never really know. I do know he wanted to stay with the Orioles because he said that.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #130 by ofahn » February 8th, 2013, 7:07 pm

osforlife wrote:The Orioles weren't in a position to spend on long-term lucrative contracts that could possibly haunt a suspicious contender last year. But, that doesn't mean I wouldn't have overpaid a bit on a couple one year deals. Using baseball-reference's WAR, I was looking at these highlighted player's values from past years and using them to predict my prediction for their future values.

Dan Haren: 3.5 WAR
Shaun Marcum: 2.8 WAR


I can ABSOLUTELY agree with your logic; but I, again, remind you that the player has to be willing to come here even at the contract they signed for.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #131 by ofahn » February 8th, 2013, 7:09 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:I have a feeling that the Orioles offered him much less than he received from Seattle.


Neither of will probably ever know, but I'll bet that the difference was less than 10% and the Orioles would have matched his offer if that would have closed the deal. He decided to play in Seattle because the park will make his stats look better.
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Re: How Would You Rate The Orioles’ Off Season So Far?

PostPost #132 by LA Detective » February 9th, 2013, 1:18 pm

You can never have enough pitching but I really believe that by June or July Saunders would of been our 6th or 7th best pitcher. Take away those two great playoff starts (both less than 6 innings) and he was just mediocre during the year. I like him and again, you can never have enough pitching but I believe we will end up better without him.

Also, did he get the memo they are moving in the fences in Seattle? I wonder how much it will effect the pitching.
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