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Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #31 by ofahn » January 14th, 2013, 6:47 pm

A_K wrote:The relevant point is that it's perfectly rational to acknowledge that closers, as a group, are generally overrated, even while the greatest closer to ever live (Rivera), has incredibly high value.


POINTS!
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #32 by Seafordeagles » January 14th, 2013, 6:54 pm

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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #33 by A_K » January 14th, 2013, 6:56 pm

By no means. You're entitled to your opinion. I just don't share it.
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #34 by Seafordeagles » January 14th, 2013, 6:59 pm

A_K wrote:By no means. You're entitled to your opinion. I just don't share it.


I wasn't referring to you. Sorry if you thought that.
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #35 by DougDE » January 14th, 2013, 9:06 pm

osforlife wrote:I wrote that and I'd make that trade again in a heartbeat. Jim Johnson is a very good reliever but:
1. he racked up a bunch of saves because our team put him in the situation to do so(so many one run games)
2. we will likely see a drop in production(converting saves and pitching stats)
3. Darren O'Day was a better reliever in almost every category last year(ERA, FIP, xFIP, SIERA, WHIP, H/9, K/9, BB/9, avg against)
4. Jim Johnson's value is high right now, no?
5. Jim Johnson and Darren O'Day both had a WAR of 1.4 last year. Relief pitchers aren't as valuable as many think and I believe a team will overpay to get an effective late inning reliever.

Jim Johnson and JJ Hardy are quality players, nobody is doubting that. I'm also sure no fan of the Orioles would want to see them go, as they were big parts of the magical run of 2012. But the job of the Front Office is to do what is best for the team, not what is best for their personal affections for certain players. I would gladly take the best third base prospect in baseball and a young pitcher who I'd take over Zach Britton, Jake Arrieta, Tommy Hunter, Brian Matusz, and Steve Johnson, when what we'd be giving up would be positions that we have players to fill their spots, and potentially perform better.

This is spot on. Particularly #'s 2 and 4. Point to you
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #36 by birdwatcher55 » January 15th, 2013, 1:14 pm

Reading some of these posts I really have to laugh. Why are we so anxious to break up one of the top bullpens in baseball?? Who replaces Johnson if he is dealt?? And please don't say Strop!! 8-)
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #37 by ofahn » January 15th, 2013, 1:18 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:Reading some of these posts I really have to laugh. Why are we so anxious to break up one of the top bullpens in baseball?? Who replaces Johnson if he is dealt?? And please don't say Strop!! 8-)


We would build the 2013 bullpen THE EXACT SAME WAY we built the 2012 bullpen; by selecting the best talent mix and allowing those players to excel in their roles.

FWIW - IF we can build a better starting rotation the bullpen will not be as critical. I'm a BIG fan of Option B.
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #38 by A_K » January 15th, 2013, 1:31 pm

Strop, O'Day, Hunter, Lidstrom (if signed) and Arrieta would all be perfectly viable options as our closer.

The best option of all would be to have a bullpen ace that we used in high leverage moments, regardless of inning, and ditch entirely the ill conceived idea of a designated closer. But I digress.
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #39 by ofahn » January 15th, 2013, 2:10 pm

A_K wrote:But I digress.


Yes, but it was an intelligent digression. POINTS!
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #40 by birdwatcher55 » January 15th, 2013, 3:03 pm

A_K wrote:Ahhh, remember those heady days of 2010 when there was widespread agreement that Jim Johnson, dominant as he was as a set-up man, just didn't have the intestinal fortitude to make it as a closer?

I blame Tremblay for much of that nonsense. Buck had the smarts to see JJ had exceptional stuff 8-)
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #41 by ofahn » January 15th, 2013, 6:56 pm

birdwatcher55 wrote:I blame Tremblay for much of that nonsense. Buck had the smarts to see JJ had exceptional stuff 8-)


I'm not sure I agree with that. No question that Trembley mishandled the bullpen, but he gave JJ opportunities and JJ didn't produce in that role. IMO JJ figured out what his mental problems were and Buck told him that he had confidence in him. Those two things made all the difference.
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #42 by LA Detective » January 15th, 2013, 8:26 pm

I believe in the above reasons and I do remember that Trembley rode JJ pretty hard through the season. I always thought JJ would have an arm injury. I remember the times that he was tried as a Closer and it was later in the year when JJ wasnt really pitching well at the time. All indications were his arm was tired. I have always wondered until last year what JJ would do with a fresh arm.

I am sure DD/Buck have the right info for a possible move but for me it would take alot to break up what appears to be an ingredient for winning.
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Re: Olney: Top 10 bullpens in the majors (Orioles #4)

PostPost #43 by birdwatcher55 » January 16th, 2013, 3:56 pm

LA Detective wrote:I believe in the above reasons and I do remember that Trembley rode JJ pretty hard through the season. I always thought JJ would have an arm injury. I remember the times that he was tried as a Closer and it was later in the year when JJ wasnt really pitching well at the time. All indications were his arm was tired. I have always wondered until last year what JJ would do with a fresh arm.

I am sure DD/Buck have the right info for a possible move but for me it would take alot to break up what appears to be an ingredient for winning.

Tremblay set this organization back light years with his mis-management. The only person surpassing that was Sam Perlozzo 8-)
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