Welcome to the Orioles Nation Forums! Like most online communities, you must register to post on our message board. However, posting is free--it always will be--and registration is a simple process. Become part of the growing Orioles Nation community and register now!

Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #1 by Seafordeagles » January 10th, 2013, 3:28 pm

Here's the link, I think you have to be an insider to read it:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orio ... 608.column


Yesterday on 105.7 Brittney Ghiroli said the teams off season ranks a grade of"D". I rated it the same way on a thread here. Today Cowherd writes a article about the Orioles off season so far and he blasted them.

My question is if media members know this and I have posted the same things how can the Orioles be given a free pass on this off season when clearly Toronto and Boston have greatly improved (at least on paper) and Tampa traded for one of the top 5 prospects in baseball?
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 648
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #2 by ofahn » January 10th, 2013, 3:34 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Here's the link, I think you have to be an insider to read it:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orio ... 608.column


Yesterday on 105.7 Brittney Ghiroli said the teams off season ranks a grade of"D". I rated it the same way on a thread here. Today Cowherd writes a article about the Orioles off season so far and he blasted them.

My question is if media members know this and I have posted the same things how can the Orioles be given a free pass on this off season when clearly Toronto and Boston have greatly improved (at least on paper) and Tampa traded for one of the top 5 prospects in baseball?

...and here's another writer's opinion.

The Baltimore Orioles have been quiet this winter. Some think too quiet.

However, unlike the silence that preceded Josh Hamilton’s signing in Orange County or the days-late reporting that tried to catch up to Alex Anthopoulos, Sandy Alderson, and the R.A. Dickey deal (a breakdown of the timeline on the blockbuster trade between the Mets and the Blue Jays reveals that they had already agreed in principle to a deal to send the ace to Toronto by the time he made his fateful holiday party comments), it’s highly unlikely there’s anything brewing in the warehouse on Eutaw Street about to spring out and surprise the baseball world. That’s not quite Dan Duquette’s style.

To date, his iteration of the Baltimore Orioles front office hasn’t really gone in for big signings or big trades or big … anything, really. The biggest impact signing Baltimore made last offseason was bringing Taiwanese starter Wei-Yin Chen over from Nippon Professional Baseball, and while there’s certainly value in what he provided -- guys who can throw slightly fewer than 200 innings of slightly better than average starting pitching end up making over $12 million a year when they hit free agency in the current market -- he’s not the kind of impact pitcher, say, Yu Darvish of the Texas Rangers could end up being. And that’s understandable, considering Texas’s total investment in Darvish cost about ten times as much as Baltimore’s in Chen.

This offseason, though, there hasn’t even been a Wei-Yin Chen signing for the Orioles. They’ve re-signed reclamation project outfielder Nate McLouth for a couple million dollars, made some minor league moves and that’s just about it. From time to time they’ve been linked to this or that free agent or trade candidate by the national writers, likely often as a stalking horse for one side or the other in ongoing negotiations as a legitimate, interested party, but nothing serious has materialized. Nor should it: the Orioles, the new CBA and the current market have intersected at such a unique angle that Baltimore’s current inactivity is the best of many bad options.

The first thing to recognize is that in any sane world the 2013 Orioles are not a playoff team, nor are they a few pieces away from being a playoff team. This comes with the weighty caveat that we live in a decidedly insane world: The same one that gave us the 2012 Orioles. Still, that particular bolt of lightning is unlikely to strike again. Baltimore’s run to the divisional series last year was miraculous, yes, but in baseball “miraculous” is just another word for “unsustainable.” On paper right now, they’re a team that should be fighting for fourth place, with the qualifier that the difference between the haves and the have-nots in the 2013 AL East should be the smallest in recent memory.

However, there is a certain amount of help on the way. Shortstop Manny Machado and pitcher Dylan Bundy, and to a slightly lesser extent last year’s first-round pick out of LSU Kevin Gausman, are all high-upside impact prospects who should make their presence fully felt in the majors beginning in 2014. The downside is that after those three guys, Baltimore doesn’t have much of a system to talk about -- they form a very elite tier, and the guy at the top of the tier below them, infielder Jonathan Schoop, will probably fall off of most Top 100 prospect lists when they’re released this spring. L.J. Hoes could be a decent contributor in leftfield, Xavier Avery could turn into a nifty fourth outfielder. After that, it’s a bunch of guys a while from the majors, and guys who probably don’t have a future there at all.

If Machado, Bundy, and Gausman are for real -- and there’s no reason to proceed as if at least the first two of them aren’t -- then the 2014 Orioles start to look pretty good just with the guys already projected to be on the team, assuming that Baltimore does the right thing and extends Matt Wieters. Wei-Yin Chen is a much more attractive piece when he’s not the staff ace, there still might be some life left in the Jake Arrieta-as-a-starter dream, and Chris Tillman had a very encouraging year and should still be under control through any window that’s opening up for Baltimore. There’s no clear idea of what to expect from Miguel Gonzalez and Jason Hammel moving forward; both guys came out of nowhere to pitch unexpectedly well in not that many innings, which is the Triple Crown of starter regression warning signs, but that’s one of those good problems to have. Adam Jones will still be on the team, as will Nick Markakis until at least 2015, and one expects that Baltimore will make the commitment necessary to keep him in town.

The big question then is, looking at the free agents available, is there anyone worth signing that makes the team unquestionably better not just in 2013, but in 2014 and beyond? In other words, no guys like Adam LaRoche (still available) or Lance Berkman (who signed for $10 million on a one year deal with Texas; if he’s good and available, next year is the time to give him a deal like that and see what happens). Josh Hamilton and Zack Greinke were right out too, considering the gathering storm of financial clout out west. Let those guys spend this offseason and hope against hope that they’ve tightened their belts a bit by the time next winter rolls around.

Shaun Marcum is a guy that falls into this category for Baltimore, though the lack of interest in him in general leads one to think his medical problems are worse than expected. He’s not young, but he’s not old either (he turned 31 last December), and he will probably end up having to settle for a three year deal or so. The draft is weak enough this year and Baltimore’s pick is late enough that it would be worth surrendering for the right player, but Kyle Lohse is not that player.

Nick Swisher might have been worth it, but he’s a Cleveland Indian now. The market for hitters is otherwise very thin. Any real upgrade at a position of need -- third base, first base, and left field -- would have to be made through a trade, which seems infeasible because of the state of the Orioles system: three guys who are too valuable to go in a deal for anyone short of Giancarlo Stanton, and otherwise a group of somewhat unattractive prospects.

So instead, treat 2013 as Nolan Reimold’s last audition for a big league job in Baltimore. Reimold’s 2012 ended with injury after 69 plate appearances where he destroyed everything in the strikezone and some stuff outside of it (he hit a moonshot in extras to send the White Sox that was both significantly up and away), and health is probably the reason he won’t have a career as a major league regular. Still, he deserves one more go at it.

And while 2013 goes by however it does -- I think the team tops out around 76 wins, more likely something between 70 and 72, but I’ve been wrong about them before -- Orioles fans should hope the team saves its money and remember that Baltimore needs a starting second baseman more than anything.

I hear there’s this pivot guy up in New York who might test the market next winter.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/40 ... e_40880830
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4375
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #3 by A_K » January 10th, 2013, 3:39 pm

Sounds like the answer to this truly probing question is as shocking as it is radical...

prepare yourself...

PEOPLE HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS.
A_K
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 608
Joined: April 2011
Reputation Score: 43

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #4 by A_K » January 10th, 2013, 3:44 pm

That said, I'll go ahead and give them a C or so. I like the contracts given to Melky, Dempster and Swisher, and I think the O's would have been a much improved team if they had made those deals. I also didn't really care all that much when they didn't make the moves.

The reason I'm not too upset is I don't think the Orioles are particularly good, and I don't think there's any reason for them to act like last year was anything other than a fluke, and so while it'd be nice to see them make some on-paper improvements, it's also nice not to see them overreact to the fluke that was last season and make ill-fitting, short-sighted signings that wouldn't change who they are but would hurt our relatively bright mid-term future.

Also, I tend to have a general annoyance with sports fans who get worked up about a lack of offseason acquisitions. More often than not, they just want something to happen to stave off boredom and get worked up for no good reason.
A_K
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 608
Joined: April 2011
Reputation Score: 43

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #5 by Seafordeagles » January 10th, 2013, 3:55 pm

Well I'm not happy with 4th place. And that's my OPINION.

I understand that Bundy, Manny, and Gausman (Gausman can't be traded right now anywhere) are untouchable, and they should be. Bundy and Gausman problably won't be ready until 2014, but what about 2013? Should we just forget it and hope they win all those one run games again and win 16 extra inning games? Can we count on Reimold contributing? Will Nick Markakis's thumb be an issue? Where do we replace Reynolds home runs?

Here's another OPINION, the Orioles are not going to win all those one run games again and win 16 extra inning games.

What happens when these young guys arbitration years are over? Do we just let them walk and hope to get a draft pick? Does anyone see the Orioles overpaying for a free agent again?
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 648
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #6 by ofahn » January 10th, 2013, 4:24 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Does anyone see the Orioles overpaying for a free agent again?


I hope not.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4375
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #7 by Seafordeagles » January 10th, 2013, 4:51 pm

Of course they won't overpay. They don't have to when they won't sign anyone who would make a difference from last years roster. It's like what Brittney Ghiroli said yesterday: I have no clue why they won't spent any of that MASN money.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 648
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #8 by A_K » January 10th, 2013, 5:07 pm

I'm less interested in general discussions of "spending money," as if the shear act of spending is a virtue in and of itself, and more interested in hearing arguments for who they should have signed, and at what cost those players would cease to represent a good value.
A_K
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 608
Joined: April 2011
Reputation Score: 43

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #9 by Seafordeagles » January 10th, 2013, 5:11 pm

Here's something else about the orioles:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/01/m ... eason.html

In total, 24 of the 30 MLB teams have signed a free agent to a multiyear deal this winter. The Orioles, Astros, Mets, Marlins, Rockies and Padres are the only teams that have yet to make a multiyear commitment to a free agent.


I believe out of the 6 teams only the Orioles were a playoff team in 2012. Nothing like pocketing that MASN money and resting on your laurels from 2012, so far.....................................

The Orioles popularity is still very high. All the autograph vouchers at Fanfest were sold out in hours, and that's a first.
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 648
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #10 by ofahn » January 10th, 2013, 5:13 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:Of course they won't overpay. They don't have to when they won't sign anyone who would make a difference from last years roster. It's like what Brittney Ghiroli said yesterday: I have no clue why they won't spent any of that MASN money.


There's a very good reason why they shouldn't have bought a bunch of free agents this winter; HOWEVER, it's NOT one that sportswriters like because they want big stories to write about nor one that some fans like because they believe it's a good idea to wreck the franchise in order to win a few more games this year.

I said two years ago that 2014 should be the year we have enough organic talent to justify making a big trade or FA signing. I haven't seen anything to cause me to change my mind.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4375
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #11 by Seafordeagles » January 10th, 2013, 5:15 pm

A_K wrote:I'm less interested in general discussions of "spending money," as if the shear act of spending is a virtue in and of itself, and more interested in hearing arguments for who they should have signed, and at what cost those players would cease to represent a good value.


I don't care about representing value. Hows about ole Peter losing money sometime. I have wanted crazy money spent for years. He used to, now he won't.

Nothing like making a splash, just ask those Angels and Dodgers fans.....
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 648
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #12 by ofahn » January 10th, 2013, 5:16 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:The Orioles, Astros, Mets, Marlins, Rockies and Padres are the only teams that have yet to make a multiyear commitment to a free agent.


It sounds like at least six teams have been realistic about their state of their franchise instead of foolish enough to spend money they'll probably regret in the near future.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4375
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #13 by ofahn » January 10th, 2013, 5:16 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:I don't care about representing value. Hows about ole Peter losing money sometime. I have wanted crazy money spent for years. He used to, now he won't.


Perhaps the Orioles aren't the right team for you.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4375
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #14 by Seafordeagles » January 10th, 2013, 5:18 pm

So we should just flush 2013 down the toilet because you think we should make a splash in 2014. Okay................
Seafordeagles
GCL Orioles
 
Posts: 648
Joined: October 2012
Reputation Score: 18

Re: Kevin Cowherd from Baltimore Sun on Orioles Offseason

PostPost #15 by ofahn » January 10th, 2013, 5:19 pm

Seafordeagles wrote:So we should just flush 2013 down the toilet because you think we should make a splash in 2014. Okay................


Perhaps the Orioles aren't the right team for you.
User avatar
ofahn
Aberdeen IronBirds
 
Posts: 4375
Joined: May 2011
Reputation Score: 85


Next

Return to Baltimore Orioles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron